Ask HN: Laid off today for the first time, anything to be wary of? Advice? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Laid off today for the first time, anything to be wary of? Advice?

#71

Post by greenspot » Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 3:46 PM UTC

gdulli wrote: post #62

greenspot wrote: post #4

1. You must reframe the situation as quick as possible. Don't think, 'shit, why me, what happened, am I not good enough?' Such thoughts bring you a vicious cycle. You must treat this situation as the best thing ever happened, you must be happy about it. And I promise you, heck I bet $10,000 that you'll tell us in one year that this lay-off was the best thing ever happened and led you to x, y and z. So, basically it's…

> 1. You must reframe the situation as quick as possible. Don't think, 'shit, why me, what happened, am I not good enough?' Such thoughts bring you a vicious cycle. You must treat this situation as the best thing ever happened, you must be happy about it. And I promise you, heck I bet $10,000 that you'll tell us in one year that this lay-off was the best thing ever happened and led you to x, y and z. Positivity that…

Your message is basically 'learn from your mistakes' which would be usually a good advice. But in this special situation he just shouldn't.

Why:

- You don't have the time and the energy to do so; the risk of getting depressed or apathetic in such situations is quite high (once you are depressed you have another problem you don't want and can deal with); so discipline is the most important thing; to stay disciplined you MUST stay positive, 100%; thinking about 'micro-failures' doesn't help your mood; and btw, every situation can be seen positive or negative, you remember when people say the glass is half-full?

- Maybe the OP didn't do anything wrong, how do you want to know? Maybe it was the financial situation of the company, or they changed the product strategy over night or, or, or...; he might never find out the real reason, so any time spent on such thoughts is wasted time he could use for new endeavors

- Maybe in a year he can think back and learn from failures; but you know what, he doesn't have to sit down, think and learn from potential failures now: I am pretty sure that when he faces similar situations in future where he did mistakes in the past, he will remember and will act accordingly and automatically without the need to prepare himself

Re: Ask HN: Laid off today for the first time, anything to be wary of? Advice?

#72

Post by tbendixson » Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 3:49 PM UTC

tbendixson wrote: post #68

Hey hey. I was in the same boat last year. Loved the company but there just weren't enough contracts coming through the door to keep me fully employed. One thing that really helps to keep me sane during tough times is to catalog every teeny tiny expense I've made over the past year. When you know exactly where your money is going, it will help alleviate lots of stress. Before I did this, I felt a vague sense of panic…

Shoot. I forgot one thing.

If you haven't done your taxes already, do them. It will give you a better picture of where you stand & what you can expect in terms of a refund (if you get one).

Admittedly this advice probably applies more to the self-employed folks as we have to pay quarterly estimated taxes. The worst thing that can happen is to lose a client and then discover that you owe the government a few grand in April.

But if you are getting a refund, it should make you feel more calm about your situation.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off today for the first time, anything to be wary of? Advice?

#73

Post by byoung2 » Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 4:01 PM UTC

bestnameever wrote: post #11

byoung2 wrote: post #2

I had a similar situation back in 2009. I gave my resignation to my boss on a Friday and he said I should hold off until Monday. Monday came around and they laid off most the the dev staff. Instead of having to work for 2 more weeks I got 6 weeks severance and got to leave that day. I already had a job lined up to start 2 weeks later so I booked a week in Cancun in the interim. They make you sign a paper that says yo…

Be careful negotiating severance if your company does not like you or has a poor culture. Making a counter offer can be taken as a refusal of their offer of severance. Companies can't just not offer you severance if they make a habit of it so they may take advantage of being able to deny you the option. I am not a lawyer but I know people who have lost their option of a severance simply by trying to negotiate for a b…

In this case they were more afraid of their unemployment insurance rate going up if 20% of the company claimed unemployment. It was much cheaper to pay an extra 2 weeks. You're right you have to know the company, and in this case it was a great company with nice founders but the economy was tanking adyer the 2008 crash so they needed to cut costs.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off today for the first time, anything to be wary of? Advice?

#74

Post by LordKano » Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 4:05 PM UTC

NonEUCitizen wrote: post #3

byoung2 wrote: post #2

I had a similar situation back in 2009. I gave my resignation to my boss on a Friday and he said I should hold off until Monday. Monday came around and they laid off most the the dev staff. Instead of having to work for 2 more weeks I got 6 weeks severance and got to leave that day. I already had a job lined up to start 2 weeks later so I booked a week in Cancun in the interim. They make you sign a paper that says yo…

I have not heard of layoffs making you sign paperwork that you resigned. More common is they ask you to sign paperwork that you won't sue them, and give you more severance payment if you sign it. You can still claim unemployment as you were laid off. But check your paperwork.

Not only have I never heard of this, it doesn't make any sense to me.

Unless you will be starting a new job in two weeks, why would you forgo 26 weeks of 50% of your income in exchange for 4-6 weeks of 100%. The math just doesn't work.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off today for the first time, anything to be wary of? Advice?

#75

Post by gdulli » Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 4:06 PM UTC

greenspot wrote: post #71

gdulli wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. You must reframe the situation as quick as possible. Don't think, 'shit, why me, what happened, am I not good enough?' Such thoughts bring you a vicious cycle. You must treat this situation as the best thing ever happened, you must be happy about it. And I promise you, heck I bet $10,000 that you'll tell us in one year that this lay-off was the best thing ever happened and led you to x, y and z. Positivity that…

Your message is basically 'learn from your mistakes' which would be usually a good advice. But in this special situation he just shouldn't. Why: - You don't have the time and the energy to do so; the risk of getting depressed or apathetic in such situations is quite high (once you are depressed you have another problem you don't want and can deal with); so discipline is the most important thing; to stay disciplined y…

The glass half full metaphor doesn't apply, it's about deciding the overall balance of a situation. This is different, it's about recognizing both the good and bad aspects of a situation. They're equally important and it's not about deciding between them. Being honest about both, right now, not a year from now, tells me what I need to adjust in my life so I make the best decision about what to do next.

When things are difficult is the most important time to be starting to build and have access to robust coping skills. Otherwise, when would you?

It's rare in life to get honest and blunt feedback about mistakes and you can either take the opportunity or ignore it. Building up criticism or rejection as such scary things that they have to be faced with denial is just another way of giving them too much weight and letting them control you.

If clinical depression is involved, by all means get professional help and don't get it through HN.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off today for the first time, anything to be wary of? Advice?

#76

Post by thekaleb » Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 4:47 PM UTC

greenspot wrote: post #4

1. You must reframe the situation as quick as possible. Don't think, 'shit, why me, what happened, am I not good enough?' Such thoughts bring you a vicious cycle. You must treat this situation as the best thing ever happened, you must be happy about it. And I promise you, heck I bet $10,000 that you'll tell us in one year that this lay-off was the best thing ever happened and led you to x, y and z. So, basically it's…

I can confirm your sentiment. I got laid off from a job. It turned out to be fantastic.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off today for the first time, anything to be wary of? Advice?

#77

Post by layoffthrowaway » Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 5:03 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #33

>if there's anything I should be wary of Don't cave to the temptation of making an ass of yourself. You never know when you might run into someone in a future job. They'll likely make you sign some papers for the 1 month severance. Pay attention. Sometimes there are unsavory clauses, like non-competes, non-disclosure, etc. It would be helpful to know where you are located. If you're in California, for example, you ca…

Forgot to mention and it doesn't seem like I can edit my post anymore, but I'm located in Vancouver, B.C (Canada). The release includes the following sections:

* no admissions

* further claims (agree to not make claims against the Releasees)

* indemnity for taxes

* no denigration or defamation

* non-disclosure

* confidentiality

I don't believe it was a large layoff, in fact, I'm not sure if anyone else got hit. The reason was cited as an internal re-org, where the group of developers I belong to went under a different person within the company. I suspect it may have to do with the fact my options vest in about 2~3 weeks.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off today for the first time, anything to be wary of? Advice?

#78

Post by layoffthrowaway » Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 5:08 PM UTC

youdontknowtho wrote: post #29

Your friends will want to take you drinking. Be careful. Be sure to get lots of exercise and sunlight. I'm serious you have be very careful about slipping into depression.

Thank you, I am aware. I personally do not touch alcohol, and have gone through periods of quite severe depression. Luckily this lay off was quite ideal personally (despite being slightly unexpected), so I don't believe I'll sink back into depression (in fact, some things at the place were starting to make me depressed), but I'll be mindful.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off today for the first time, anything to be wary of? Advice?

#79

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 5:28 PM UTC

LordKano wrote: post #74

NonEUCitizen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not heard of layoffs making you sign paperwork that you resigned. More common is they ask you to sign paperwork that you won't sue them, and give you more severance payment if you sign it. You can still claim unemployment as you were laid off. But check your paperwork.

Not only have I never heard of this, it doesn't make any sense to me. Unless you will be starting a new job in two weeks, why would you forgo 26 weeks of 50% of your income in exchange for 4-6 weeks of 100%. The math just doesn't work.

Unemployment maxes out in most states between $350-$450 a week.

Re: Ask HN: Laid off today for the first time, anything to be wary of? Advice?

#80

Post by layoffthrowaway » Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 5:39 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #26

Sounds a little more than coincidental that were you planning on quitting anyway. Can you explain further?

Well, a while back I was asked to help out with an emergency project on another team with a major client for a major contract. An arcane system that no one (not even I) knew how to work, that was incredibly frustrating and old.

Essentially they wanted a major new system built off of a very old, limiting, and opaque tool. I won't go into the details of the tools for confidentiality reasons. Anyways, this meant I had a huge task to do, no one to go to for help, and many top levels within both ours and the client company overseeing and getting stressed over it.

This project was originally scheduled for 2 months, but due to scope creep and a lack of push-back from the PM in charge of this project, they begged for me to continue to help another month, after which they asked me to continue till the end of November after which I would be on my 5 week vacation.

Anyways, the reason I was quitting was partially because of all the frustration, stagnation (no learning opportunity) of working on that system, and because of the main person I have to work with (our product team is ~9 people but this "side" of it is only 3, and 1 is a junior with less experience/know-how).

During my whole time there, this person I had to work with only trained me on the existing system only when he felt like it, but only ever scratching the surface. Any further questions about this unfamiliar domain (very niche service for extremely niche work) that I was unfamiliar with and unable to learn from anywhere else was met with "I'm busy.", occasionally followed by expletives and heavy sighing. Often times this person would also get incredibly passive aggressive. Long story short, it was very stressful working with this person and the general environment at the company is very heads-down, hard working, so virtually no other social interaction was ever had (or very rare).