Obama is seriously considering a pardon for Chelsea Manning

Post by ionised » Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 12:24 PM UTC

totalZero wrote: post #5

frozenport wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, I think you can draw a straight line from him to the election of Donald Trump. The one sided, anti-us nature of WikiLeaks, including perhaps incomplete content, hint at editorial digression with a clear motivation. I can't come up with a single way this helped America, but it certainly hurt our prestige around the world.

The US wasn't founded to serve as a beacon of prestige. The point of the government has more to do with its obligations to, and relationship with, its people.

Post by lotsofpulp » Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 12:29 PM UTC

sparky_z wrote: post #28

harry8 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. And kindly don't put words in my mouth. The rule of law and equality before it is a principal I believe in. Some politician being able to arbitrarily decide that the rule of law does not apply to a particular person is a violation of that principal. Maybe one day you'll see why it matters.

My apologies if I was misrepresenting your position. I was basing my take on these words: > If you think someone needs a presidential pardon, just back up and think "which law is horrible and unjust and must be reformed." If not the law maybe the courts. Pardon at best is a fig leaf over a gaping wound. Maybe you don't like to put it this bluntly, but it seems pretty clear that you were saying "pardoning is never jus…

Post by taneq » Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 1:00 PM UTC

harry8 wrote: post #12

sparky_z wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardons can certainly be corrupt, but I don't think they're corrupt by definition. I think of them as a last line of defense-in-depth against unjust convictions. After all, no organization made up of humans can be perfect, and the court system (of any nation) is no exception. Of course, pardons are misusable . I would support, for example, disallowing presidential pardons in the last year of a presidential term, so t…

If the conviction is unjust either the law is unjust and should be reformed or the system is unjust in not providing a reasonable, equitable and useful avenue of appeal to overturn the injustice. Corrupt by definition because it is always a corruption of "equality before the law"

Post by sophspot » Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 3:06 PM UTC

xyzzy4 wrote: post #36

oshoham wrote: post #20

Chelsea Manning is a trans woman, please don't misgender her.

Chelsea Manning isn't reading the HN thread, so why does it matter what gender you use? It's like telling someone to use Kolkata instead of Calcutta.

Post by xyzzy4 » Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 3:56 PM UTC

toor2 wrote: post #38

xyzzy4 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chelsea Manning isn't reading the HN thread, so why does it matter what gender you use? It's like telling someone to use Kolkata instead of Calcutta.

Rude. A trans person other than Chelsea could be reading this right now. If you do not respect her identity then it could be (and should be imo) interpreted as disregard for trans people in general