Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

strongtowns.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 174 posts

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#141

Post by taejo »

rconti wrote: post #116
cderwin wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but isn't it just as reasonable that they didn't want to change it? Presumably changing the date would actually censor the vote, with it being nearly impossible to get word of the date change to the entire electorate.

I don't think anyone just randomly shows up at the voting booth on the (guessing here) 1st Tuesday of the month in election years. I suspect virtually everyone knows about the exact date due to various forms of publicity. Especially when you consider the many different dates for many different kinds of elections. That said, EVERY interest group is going to favor or disfavor any particular new solution due to perceive…

> (guessing here) 1st Tuesday of the month in election years

It's actually the first Tuesday after the first Monday (in other words, the first Tuesday after the first of November, which is All Saints' Day, and therefore unsuitable).

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#142

Post by kdamken »

supernumerary wrote: post #64

Detroit is implementing a program along these lines. They are selling properties in so called 'bad neighborhoods' and mandating that they be rehabbed and renovated within 6 months to code. The average cost of rehabbing a home bought for $1000~$2000 say is $50,000. Have a look at the website: http://www.buildingdetroit.org/ The 'Rehabbed and Ready' ( http://auctions.buildingdetroit.org/RehabbedAndReady ) homes demonst…

It's a shame that a lot of those nicely new and rehabbed homes will be likely be destroyed by their new tenants.

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#143

Post by dragonwriter »

emodendroket wrote: post #102
dragonwriter wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After all, the United States was a crazy experiment to revive 2,000-year-old Greek idea called 'Democracy'. Not really. Representative democracy as the substantive form of government was an established tradition in Britain and it's North American colonies long before the US (a prime motivation for the revolution was perceived increasing deviation from that norm by the central government in respect to the administra…

> Insofar as the US (under the Constitution, at least) was an experiment in government, it wasn't in revive a dormant concept of "democracy", but in vigorously and fairly explicitly adopting the novel tripartite separation of powers model of Montesquieu. But that model is basically based on the English government with Parliament and a king in place of Congress and a president, isn't it? There was definitely a lot of…

> But that model is basically based on the English government with Parliament and a king in place of Congress and a president, isn't it?

Not really; the British system of the time was certainly an important influence on Montesquieu, but it didn't exhibit the three-way separation of powers between executive, legislative, and judicial that his model called for.

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#144

Post by vidarh »

emodendroket wrote: post #137
vidarh wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a reason why US government buildings all look like classical temples. It's not quite that simple. The US Federal style adapted neoclassist architecture from Europe, where Greek and Roman inspired revivals started in the mid 18th century when new archeological expeditions as well as artists bringing back impressions of Italy and Greece produced an influx of images and artefacts that made Greek and Roman arch…

Yeah, but they also kept writing about how they were creating the new Rome.

But that basis of that fascination was also part of the reason for the rise of neoclassisism.

Greece and the Roman Republic and Empire came to be seen as purer, grander and more refined past, which drove a lot of effort into re-discovering information about them, which led to an increased interest in archeology, and eventually to things like neoclassism.

Dictators and radicals alike looked for lessons, and found them in different places for centuries. E.g. the former have often had an extreme fascination with the idea of continuity with the Roman Empire (see one of Napoleons later extreme examples of trying to be Roman[1]); the latter with the nascent democracy of the Greek city states and the Roman Republic.

You find it everywhere, not just in philosophy, architecture and art: English itself was subjected to a sustained "assault" of writers trying to bring more Latin and Greek words into common use.

A bit cheek-in-mouth: Everyone wanted to create the new Rome, ever since the fall of Rome (e.g. consider the Holy Roman Empire and the idea of "translatio imperii" which was used to justify a tenuous connection to the perceived glory of ROme [2]). They just disagreed (strongly) about what was great about Rome.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_style#/media/File:The_M...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translatio_imperii

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#145

Post by rhino369 »

yabatopia wrote: post #100
supernumerary wrote: post #64

Detroit is implementing a program along these lines. They are selling properties in so called 'bad neighborhoods' and mandating that they be rehabbed and renovated within 6 months to code. The average cost of rehabbing a home bought for $1000~$2000 say is $50,000. Have a look at the website: http://www.buildingdetroit.org/ The 'Rehabbed and Ready' ( http://auctions.buildingdetroit.org/RehabbedAndReady ) homes demonst…

These conditions are crazy. Requiring in investment of ten thousands of dollars in a home in a high risk neighbourhood within six months after purchase is borderline preying on the gullible. A street in Detroit can go in a downward spiral within months. All it takes is one bad apple (home) that gets boarded up or goes down in flames near your investment and your purchase becomes a super high risk gamble, most probabl…

There almost certainly already are boarded up or burnt out homes in the area before you buy. That's why they are giving these away. It probably only makes sense if you can handle the renovations mostly yourself.

You can make a decent profit on these, but not in a home flipping sense. You have to become a landlord. You are in it for the cash flow from renting it out.

My father in law does this in Baltimore. He'd make a lot of money if he wasn't so bad at rehabbing the places. He spends too much, makes them too nice, and can't rent them out for any more than the going market rate. Best house in the ghetto isn't worth shit. If he just did the bare minimum he'd be doing pretty well. And if the area ever gentrifies, he'll make a fortune.

One trick is to get Section 8 housing vouchers. That makes sure you are always getting at least some of the rent.

The downside is that you are basically a slum lord. He has to go and knock on doors for rent.

It's definitely not passive income--like renting a condo to working professionals can be.

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#146

Post by tptacek »

nine_k wrote: post #4

In short: the poor neighborhoods have the most low-hanging fruits, and can be improved in obvious ways using small, low-risk investments. Affluent neighborhoods are built in a way that cannot be easily improved upon.

That's true but not the end of the argument: it's also the case that the poorer neighborhoods tend to be denser (affluent property owners prize open space) with narrower roads and in economically favorable locations (the poorer neighborhoods tend to be older, and the most economical places to build tend to get the ones that get built up first).

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#147

Post by rrdharan »

GreenPlastic wrote: post #107
yabatopia wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These conditions are crazy. Requiring in investment of ten thousands of dollars in a home in a high risk neighbourhood within six months after purchase is borderline preying on the gullible. A street in Detroit can go in a downward spiral within months. All it takes is one bad apple (home) that gets boarded up or goes down in flames near your investment and your purchase becomes a super high risk gamble, most probabl…

I knew a real estate investor who was really successful who's motto was the best investments are those in the worst areas that most people wouldn't touch. Large trailer parks with high vacancy rates, run down neighborhoods, etc. We don't live in Detroit but bought 3 properties for 40k each with about 18-20% yields. The renters aren't the best (they're paying 800 in rent because they can't afford an 8k downpayment), b…

I just read the book Evicted by Matthew Desmond which goes into great detail about how much money there is to be made from this approach.

It's definitely sympathetic to the plight of the very low income tenants but not unjustly so; anyway I found it fascinating and worth recommending here:

https://www.amazon.com/Evicted-Poverty-Profit-American-City/...

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#148

Post by tptacek »

adolph wrote: post #45

I don't understand the author's argument. Is it "spiff up the 'poor' neighborhoods so the inhabitants will pay more property taxes?" When I look at the map, it looks like most of the city is lightly in the red and it has several extremely red areas which may drive most of the losses. What is driving those? Are they stadiums or large government facilities that aren't taxable? Or maybe middle-aged neighborhoods with se…

The town he's using as a case study is Lafayette, Louisiana. You can just pull it up on Google Maps to see what he's talking about. From what I can see, the largest building in the town is a Wal-mart.

The argument is that improving neighborhood infrastructure will tend to improve housing values; that's noncontroversial. Increased housing values implies increased property tax; that's axiomatic. Poorer neighborhoods are denser, so a single neighborhood intervention has more impact on a larger number of properties. The poorer neighborhoods tend to be cheaper to improve. And the poorer neighborhoods have more upside: it's difficult to improve the value of properties that were recently designed and built to maximize real estate value.

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#149

Post by Chris2048 »

twblalock wrote: post #122
OrwellianChild wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot can be learned from inverting the spin of the advice you are proposing... What you are saying is: "Leave neighborhoods unpleasant so only poor people want to live in them." Looking at it this way gets at the heart of the problem with this way of thinking. Can I suggest a counter point? Solve the systemic issues that prevent low-income people from seeking good housing, rather than advocating to keep them…

Your interpretation changes the meaning of what I said, and it is uncharitable at best. I never advocated keeping the poor "in their place." I just pointed out that unintended consequences can occur in these kinds of situations.

How is the above not the implication though? At least if a neighborhood changes, there is a chance a % of poor locals are able to profit from it and stay.

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#150

Post by Chris2048 »

mr_spothawk wrote: post #28
MichaelBurge wrote: post #8

[This comment has been removed since it was off-topic]

> "not someone on welfare with a hidden drug problem." whoa. what about the person whose spouse died last year, and whose house burned down over Christmas? ^^ she's a 1st order connection, but not my tenant. how about the aunt who's got +2 mouths to feed & house after her sister died? ^^ again, real human, facing real serious cash-flow problems. there are so many ways to wind up in a hard way, necessitating low-cost…

> I did significantly more damage to rental properties than I lost deposits to repair... intentionally

Why?!

Post reply on HN