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Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

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Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#101

Post by [deleted] »

abalone wrote: post #87
shmulkey18 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant The Charter identified Hamas as the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine and declares its members to be Muslims who "fear God and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors." The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestin…

Likud platform of 1999: a. “The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.” b. “Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem” c. “The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.” d. "Settlement of the land is a…

[deleted]

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#102

Post by Udik »

YZF wrote: post #99
abalone wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The International Criminal Court still recognizes Israel as the occupying power in Gaza "based on the scope and degree of control that it has retained over the territory of Gaza following the 2005 disengagement."[1] [1] https://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/otp/OTP-COM-Article_53(1)-Re...

No it doesn't. The linked article which is not a court ruling, it's a report from the "Office of the Prosecutor", says: "While Israel maintains that it is no longer occupying Gaza, the prevalent view within the international community is that Israel remains an occupying power under international law, based on the scope and degree of control that it has retained over the territory of Gaza following the 2005 disengagem…

(from Wikipedia, Gaza Strip, military occupation)

In his statement on the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict, Richard Falk, United Nations Special Rapporteur wrote that international humanitarian law applied to Israel "in regard to the obligations of an Occupying Power and in the requirements of the laws of war."[41] Amnesty International, the World Health Organization, Oxfam, the International Committee of the Red Cross, The United Nations, the United Nations General Assembly, the UN Fact Finding Mission to Gaza, international human rights organizations, US government websites, the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office, and a significant number of legal commentators (Geoffrey Aronson, Meron Benvenisti, Claude Bruderlein, Sari Bashi and Kenneth Mann, Shane Darcy and John Reynolds, Yoram Dinstein, John Dugard, Marc S. Kaliser, Mustafa Mari, Iain Scobbie, and Yuval Shany maintain that Israel's extensive direct external control over Gaza, and indirect control over the lives of its internal population mean that Gaza remained occupied.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#103

Post by cnlevy »

justin66 wrote: post #90
berntb wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding the killed children -- wasn't the people doing a revenge murder of a Palestinian teenager sentenced to long jail sentences when they got caught? The Palestinian terrorists are declared martyrs, mural paintings are done, their relatives get a pension from PLO -- while caught Israeli murderers are sent to jail..? It do seem like equivalent sides, as you claim... :-)

> The Palestinian terrorists are declared martyrs, mural paintings are done, their relatives get a pension from PLO -- while caught Israeli murderers are sent to jail..? Judging from the public reaction in Israel to the manslaughter conviction of Elor Azaria (polling suggests something like 67% want him pardoned), some segment of the Israeli public isn't above sticking up for its murderers.

I personally want him pardoned because of the context (recurring knife attacks on military and civilians), but he is certainly not an hero in my view.

Being discreetly discharged from the army for miscondcuct is probably what would have happened if not for the filming that triggered a PUBLIC trial.

After all, the state gave him a weapon, and indicts him when he uses it ? Part of the responsibility is on the state itself.

There are precedents to these kind of incidents:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Miller_(filmmaker): The army did say that the soldier would be disciplined for violating the rules of engagement and for changing his account of the incident.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#104

Post by kirillkh »

metaphorm wrote: post #36
ars wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy for you to say when you're not the one being attacked and hated. "Just trust them and wait them out, they don't all hate you. Let them kill a few and hopefully they'll stop someday." Right now, today, Muslim hate of Jews in nearly universal. In the past Christians were anti-semitic, sure, but right now today, it's relatively rare. Tell me something, is there any city on the planet that you know with 100% certain…

I'm a Jewish American with holocaust survivors in my extended family. I have not personally experienced that kind of hate but certainly it is known to my family. You, I think, need some perspective. There's nothing more to be gained from this conversation.

It's when you see pictures of Israelis being lynched with nothing more than bare hands of Palestinian crowd: https://goo.gl/hmKwJi

... you know that there can be no peace. Peace is made with people, not with governments. And Palestinians are overwhelmingly against peace with Israel on any terms other than submission.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#105

Post by kirillkh »

dosgonlogs wrote: post #38
ars wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you don't know that Muslim attacks on Jews long predate the modern state of Israel. Additionally hate for Jews is common in Arab counties that are very far away from, and don't interact with, Israel at all. There is nothing at all Israel can do to change this. Look at Egypt for example - very long and successful peace treaty. But the populace still hates Jews. If it's not possible to make an ordinary Egyptian…

Read it and weep: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair Israel has a history of attacking itself and blaming it on Muslims. Israel is Awful (Government, not all the people). IDF (Israeli Military) was established by Israeli Terrorist groups.

"The bombs were timed to detonate several hours after closing time."

I believe that is called subversion, not terrorism. Terrorism generally involves an attempt to murder innocents.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#106

Post by kirillkh »

Udik wrote: post #102
YZF wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't. The linked article which is not a court ruling, it's a report from the "Office of the Prosecutor", says: "While Israel maintains that it is no longer occupying Gaza, the prevalent view within the international community is that Israel remains an occupying power under international law, based on the scope and degree of control that it has retained over the territory of Gaza following the 2005 disengagem…

(from Wikipedia, Gaza Strip, military occupation) In his statement on the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict, Richard Falk, United Nations Special Rapporteur wrote that international humanitarian law applied to Israel "in regard to the obligations of an Occupying Power and in the requirements of the laws of war."[41] Amnesty International, the World Health Organization, Oxfam, the International Committee of the Red Cross…

So there are some persons and organizations who believe that Gaza is occupied. Sorry, but that doesn't make it true in my view.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#107

Post by berntb »

ghostDancer wrote: post #97
wslh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Hamas recognizes the right of Israel to exist, the walls will be broken and the major part of the settlements moved. Israel has shown several times that they can exchange land for peace, even within right wing governments.

No one can believe that. That's one of the big lies of the Israeli government. Settlements will never be given back and the mission is to get all the land. That was the idea from the beginning and they think they have their god on their side.

So the basic problem is that the Jews and/or the democratic country are evil? Sigh... :-(

Arafat got at least two offers for a Palestinian state (at Camp David and once later), with about 91% of the West Bank iirc.

The later offer was when Barak needed Arafat's support of a peace agreement before an election (so the Palestinian side had a good negotiating position).

Arafat didn't accept either -- which was one thing. But there was no counter offer like "Give us XX and YY and customs advantages ZZ and ...". Instead Arafat started a terror campaign.

But there is no blame for all that refusal to even give a counter proposal; it is all a big Israeli conspiracy.

(Seriously, I feel a bit sick when I chat with hateful people.)

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#108

Post by berntb »

justin66 wrote: post #90
berntb wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding the killed children -- wasn't the people doing a revenge murder of a Palestinian teenager sentenced to long jail sentences when they got caught? The Palestinian terrorists are declared martyrs, mural paintings are done, their relatives get a pension from PLO -- while caught Israeli murderers are sent to jail..? It do seem like equivalent sides, as you claim... :-)

> The Palestinian terrorists are declared martyrs, mural paintings are done, their relatives get a pension from PLO -- while caught Israeli murderers are sent to jail..? Judging from the public reaction in Israel to the manslaughter conviction of Elor Azaria (polling suggests something like 67% want him pardoned), some segment of the Israeli public isn't above sticking up for its murderers.

You are not contradicting my point. He is still going to jail.

The sympathy for due process of terrorists will wear thin in most democracies. Afaik, most countries with continuous terror problems throw out the law book.

This is a quite logical result, since the point of terror is to get a fear and horror reaction from the civilian population to influence them. Scared voters make politicians hysterical, so everything is done to stop the situation. (Democracies seems to be even worse here, since voters are more important than non democracies.)

Afaik, this goes for USA, Germany, Israel, Britain, Spain, etc. (I saw claims from some English guy that they did it different regarding IRA, then some other GB guy contradicted and listed some English laws. Let's call that example uncertain.)

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#109

Post by berntb »

Cyph0n wrote: post #43
starik36 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That maybe true. But nearly 99% of the Jews did leave Tunisia, according to the Wikipedia article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Mu... . In 1948, there were 105,000 Jews in Tunisia. Now there are 1,500. How do you explain that?

That was a dark time and was fueled by politics rather than the respect of the local population. A large percentage of the Jewish population left for France and Israel - I believe it was an almost 50/50 split between the two. More notably, this was a move by the Tunisian government, in "solidarity" with Palestine and in agreement with the rest of the Muslim world. This does not mean it was right of course. From my co…

So, on one side you have the Nakba in a burning civil war when populations were thrown out (both Jews and Palestinians). Civil wars are horrible.

The other side is when the Jews were thrown out of the Muslim countries and their property stolen. Not in a civil war, but just from racism -- because they had the same religion as in some other country.

Note here that more Jews fled from the Muslim world than Palestinians in the Nakba. And in the fleeing Jews' stolen property there were more land than multiple times the size of Israel.

Contrast this with that not every Palestinian fled from Israel. They are still a large part of the population today -- the Israeli Palestinians were NOT thrown out as a reaction to when the Muslims threw out their Jews.

And you are really, really upset about Israel -- but dismiss the worse things happening in e.g. your home country Tunisia...

I have to stop here -- any further comment on your opinions, moral and intellectual integrity can't be polite. Let me just say that as a Westerner, I think you should judge yourself harder than you judge others.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#110

Post by berntb »

Udik wrote: post #102
YZF wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't. The linked article which is not a court ruling, it's a report from the "Office of the Prosecutor", says: "While Israel maintains that it is no longer occupying Gaza, the prevalent view within the international community is that Israel remains an occupying power under international law, based on the scope and degree of control that it has retained over the territory of Gaza following the 2005 disengagem…

(from Wikipedia, Gaza Strip, military occupation) In his statement on the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict, Richard Falk, United Nations Special Rapporteur wrote that international humanitarian law applied to Israel "in regard to the obligations of an Occupying Power and in the requirements of the laws of war."[41] Amnesty International, the World Health Organization, Oxfam, the International Committee of the Red Cross…

Richard Falk worked for UNHRC -- infamous for being shanghaied by dictators that don't criticize each others, but instead complain about democracies.

Israel has been literally criticized a hundred times more than e.g. Sudan with a million rapes and a million murders (more?).

See e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Human_Rights_Co...

(Also, Falk have been writing for Counterpunch and so on, you don't do that if you're not quite politically extreme.)

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