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Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

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Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#81

Post by kirillkh »

Cyph0n wrote: post #58
berntb wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't contradict that you were aware of my points..? If e.g. Finland or Estonia started to shoot rocket artilleri towards St Petersburg, the reaction would certainly be much worse than Israel's at Gaza... (And because of Karelia etc for Finland and generations of slavery for Estonians, they have as good reasons as the Gazans.) The situation is: Side A attack side B's civilians. You only complain about side B's qu…

I did not respond because you are oversimplifying the issue. The history of the Israel-Palestine conflict is long and bloody. Claiming in such a confident and final manner that the building of the wall was because Gaza started is very narrow-sighted. Your analogy is incorrect. When a sovereign nation attacks another, war ensues. That is very clear. But when resistance elements arise within a city that is supposedly p…

Do you truly believe that Israel carpet bombs Gaza, or is it just a figure of speech (to make an impression on a reader who doesn't know better)?

This is carpet bombing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phzRY0DdRXk

This is a typical Israeli strike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAT1uBNcOHU

And while we're at it, this is indiscriminate bombing of an Israeli town of Sderot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRz3nHwgjHY

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#82

Post by notyourgrandma »

jbermudez5 wrote: post #46

Having volunteered with Gaza Sky Geeks (GSG) and been on the ground all I can say is that this is a big positive in the region and for the people living in Gaza. You would not believe how welcoming and hard working Palestinians are. There is a generalization because of the conflict but at the end of the day these are people like you and me trying to achieve their goals in a positive way. There is a political situatio…

I mentored as well (not with jbermudez) and agree with the above. Also, given the high level of internet infrastructure, high levels of education, and tech savvy, building a startup industry there is one of the best ways to provide future economic opportunity and sense of global participation.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#83

Post by shmerl »

davidf18 wrote: post #52

I've been to Israel many times including during the time of the first Gaza conflict (Cast Lead). There were elections in 2006 and Hamas was elected over Fatah. Hamas does not recognize Israel and is declared a terrorist state by the US, EU as well as Israel. There were supposed to be elections in 2010 but Hamas will not allow them. Hamas has spent large sums of money shooting missiles into Israel and using concrete m…

Normal people in Gaza have little choice with current fascist "government" which eliminates opposition in a literal way. So "elected" is a strong word for it.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#84

Post by shmerl »

random314 wrote: post #76
davidf18 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Palestinians elected a terrorist organization that shot missiles into Israel killing civilians that also refuses to recognize Israel. Egypt has closed off their border and flooded illegal tunnels to Gaza as well. I was a few miles away from the World Trade Center in Upper West Side Manhattan on 9/11. I don't feel kindly toward people that elect terrorist organizations to be their government. Sorry if that bothers…

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stat/deaths.html See also the UN OCHA report that records the 2,220 victims (67% of them civilians) of Israel's summer 2014 massacre in Gaza. 71 Israelis were killed during the same period (9% of them civilians). So is the IDF a terrorist organization in your personal opinion? > I was a few miles away from the World Trade Center in Upper West Side Manhattan on 9/11. I don't feel kindly…

There is no reason to whitewash Hamas. They are point blank fascists. If you claim they are "elected", then you claim that majority there supports fascist regime.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#85

Post by iblankm »

davidf18 wrote: post #73
random314 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There were elections in 2006 and Hamas was elected over Fatah. If the people of the land don't elect the party we prefer (by cross-checking with our terrorist list) we have no choice but to support their seige, occupation and Apartheid.

The Palestinians elected a terrorist organization that shot missiles into Israel killing civilians that also refuses to recognize Israel. Egypt has closed off their border and flooded illegal tunnels to Gaza as well. I was a few miles away from the World Trade Center in Upper West Side Manhattan on 9/11. I don't feel kindly toward people that elect terrorist organizations to be their government. Sorry if that bothers…

My point is that much of Gaza's population did NOT vote for Hamas. Why wouldn't you want to support THOSE people?

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#86

Post by YZF »

abalone wrote: post #35
ars wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the slightest. This kind of activity (economic activity) is probably the best way possible to deescalate the conflict. Israel has no interest in Gaza, they just want them to stop trying to attack, so if anything this program is for Israel, not against it. If you need evidence for that, then note that even during the worst conflicts Israel kept full communication (Cell and Internet) active in Gaza, which is opp…

> Israel has no interest in Gaza, they just want them to stop trying to attack This is false and one-sided. Likud, the ruling party in Israel, has in its platform an explicit denial of the right for a Palestinian state to exist west of the Jordan river.[1] Everything you've heard about Palestinians/Hamas denying Israel the right to exist is actually true about Israel as well towards Palestine. (In fact Hamas has stat…

The Likud is not the "ruling party" in Israel. Israel's government is a coalition of multiple parties. The platform of any individual party does not equate to the official position of the state of Israel. Israel had right wing and left wing governments and the path towards a solution giving Palestinians control over the the west bank and Gaza goes back to Menahem Begin who was a prime minister from the Likud who signed a peace agreement with Egypt that included the path forward to solving the Palestinian conflict and the return of the Sinai peninsula to Egypt.

During the many years of this conflict Israel had right wing and left wing governments with various different approaches. Ehud Barak has offered Yasser Arafat a two state agreement very close to what John Kerry has recently described and was rejected [1]. Earlier while Rabin and Arafat were attempting to make progress towards peace Hamas was busy blowing up buses and malls with suicide bombers which eventually lead to the rise of the right, the assassination of Rabin and the collapse of the process.

EDIT: Also worth mentioning that the withdrawal of Israel from the Gaza strip which included tearing down Israeli settlements and evicting them forcefully, was done by Arik Sharon, prime minister from the Likud.

I don't think there's any factual basis to a comparison between the Likud party and Hamas. I'll agree there are definitely opinions in the Israeli right who feel strongly that the Palestinians should not be given their own state for various reasons. Some practical (see Gaza) and some religious/ideological. However that is not the official position of Israel. No doubt there is various political maneuvering going on but the source of the trouble is the Palestinians refusal, or inability, to negotiate in good faith and compromise something they've had many opportunities to do and their insistence of using violence as means of addressing their grievances.

The majority of the world is not fully democratic[2] (well, it's a mess) and doesn't share our values so decisions made in the UN by the "whole world" aren't exactly a yard stick of humanity. The UN is systematically biased against Israel. Where are the condemnations of US, Russian, Turkish involvements in Syria?

MORE on Israel's official position, one of many instances of Israel's willingness to make progress:

April 2003: A Performance-Based Roadmap to a Permanent Two-State Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict[3]

May 2003: Israel accepts the roadmap[4]

You keep saying Hamas has accepted a two state solution but I haven't seen an official link. In fact Israel's insistence that the Palestinians accept its right to exist wouldn't be a problem if the Palestinians indeed accepted a two state solution.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

[3] http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/guide/pages/a%...

[4] http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/PressRoom/2003/Pages/Goverment%20m...

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#87

Post by abalone »

shmulkey18 wrote: post #71
serge2k wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact Hamas has stated they would respect a two-state solution Sure, but will they agree to actual terms? Terms that Israel won't instantly reject?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant The Charter identified Hamas as the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine and declares its members to be Muslims who "fear God and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors." The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestin…

Likud platform of 1999:

a. “The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.”

b. “Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem”

c. “The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.”

d. "Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel... The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."[1]

So both parties are rejectionist in principle. However in practice Hamas has indicated they would accept a two state solution. Likud has not.[2]

[1] http://www.juancole.com/2014/08/charter-destruction-palestin...

[2] http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.587047

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#88

Post by davidf18 »

shmerl wrote: post #83
davidf18 wrote: post #52

I've been to Israel many times including during the time of the first Gaza conflict (Cast Lead). There were elections in 2006 and Hamas was elected over Fatah. Hamas does not recognize Israel and is declared a terrorist state by the US, EU as well as Israel. There were supposed to be elections in 2010 but Hamas will not allow them. Hamas has spent large sums of money shooting missiles into Israel and using concrete m…

Normal people in Gaza have little choice with current fascist "government" which eliminates opposition in a literal way. So "elected" is a strong word for it.

In 2006 there was a supervised election where Hamas was legitimately elected over Fatah. The Palestinians gave a mandate of a terrorist organization to lead them.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#89

Post by shmerl »

davidf18 wrote: post #88
shmerl wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normal people in Gaza have little choice with current fascist "government" which eliminates opposition in a literal way. So "elected" is a strong word for it.

In 2006 there was a supervised election where Hamas was legitimately elected over Fatah. The Palestinians gave a mandate of a terrorist organization to lead them.

Do you trust a "supervised election" in a fascist regime? I don't really. But let's say you are right, and majority actually supports it. It means quite something morbid about such society.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#90

Post by justin66 »

berntb wrote: post #44
abalone wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel has no interest in Gaza, they just want them to stop trying to attack This is false and one-sided. Likud, the ruling party in Israel, has in its platform an explicit denial of the right for a Palestinian state to exist west of the Jordan river.[1] Everything you've heard about Palestinians/Hamas denying Israel the right to exist is actually true about Israel as well towards Palestine. (In fact Hamas has stat…

Regarding the killed children -- wasn't the people doing a revenge murder of a Palestinian teenager sentenced to long jail sentences when they got caught? The Palestinian terrorists are declared martyrs, mural paintings are done, their relatives get a pension from PLO -- while caught Israeli murderers are sent to jail..? It do seem like equivalent sides, as you claim... :-)

> The Palestinian terrorists are declared martyrs, mural paintings are done, their relatives get a pension from PLO -- while caught Israeli murderers are sent to jail..?

Judging from the public reaction in Israel to the manslaughter conviction of Elor Azaria (polling suggests something like 67% want him pardoned), some segment of the Israeli public isn't above sticking up for its murderers.

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