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Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

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Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#81

Post by lawpoop »

emodendroket wrote: post #75
walterbell wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to follow the example of Ancient Greece, where citizens got paid time off work to attend the Ecclesia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesia_(ancient_Athens) > It had the final say on legislation and the right to call magistrates to account after their year of office. In the 5th century BC its members numbered about 43,000 people. It would have been difficult, however, for non-wealthy people outside of the u…

That system worked because of a tremendous number of slaves, though.

Well, since that time, we've moved away from slavery to labor saving machines.

Since we're at a point where many people are under-employed, and we expect many more to become so, we can probably re-institute something like this.

After all, the United States was a crazy experiment to revive 2,000-year-old Greek idea called 'Democracy'. While we did have slaves at the beginning, we have managed to enfranchise all adults politically. Maybe the Ecclesia could work, too.

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#82

Post by hinkley »

walterbell wrote: post #17
Anechoic wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really gotta move out of California... It's not a California thing. As part of my job, I spend a lot of time presenting at public meetings and in my spare time I do a fair amount of advocacy (for various causes) which also results in a lot of time in public meetings. I've been in public meetings in small rural villages and large cities across 30 states. And I've observed the same thing - the folks that attend those…

We need to follow the example of Ancient Greece, where citizens got paid time off work to attend the Ecclesia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesia_(ancient_Athens) > It had the final say on legislation and the right to call magistrates to account after their year of office. In the 5th century BC its members numbered about 43,000 people. It would have been difficult, however, for non-wealthy people outside of the u…

This is like the opposite of a Federal Holiday. Everybody has the day off except for the government.

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#83

Post by lawpoop »

angry-hacker wrote: post #73
1_2__3 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opinion is because modern development is all about squeezing every single last dollar out of that development. That involves things like the illusion of open spaces while still using every last square meter of ground without wasting anything. The result is extremely jarring in ways that people can't easily articulate. Something in your brain is noticing the architecture is trying to hide what is basically a big em…

I think your onto something. Of course such things are extremely subjective. One thing I have noticed that bothers me with new developments are trees. They are always short, because they are still young. Hence they have no character, yet. Storms haven't ripped them, they haven't been shared when they cover someone's window from sunlight. And if course they are always perfectly aligned and usually rounded with a squar…

Those trees are also selected to have a pleasing shape while they are young, not drop anything untoward like too many flowers, spiky balls, rotting fruits, pits, etc., grow relatively quickly, etc.

In other words the trees are as sterile and monoculture as the architecture.

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#84

Post by WildUtah »

jonlucc wrote: post #41
PaulHoule wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to the poor neighborhoods and look closely and you often find that they built a bunch of row houses that are maybe two to four stories high. Some of them got knocked down, some of them are still there but they've been altered or decorated. When the trees get taller the monotonous aspects are less visible. Some of them are now vacant lots or rebuilt houses, stores, parking lots, etc. When they went to see Levittown…

You might be interested in the episode of 99 Percent Invisible [1] that talks about how an architect was tasked with designing a bunch of housing for very poor residents in Chile after a disaster. He chose to build half-houses that are literally unfinished roofs on one side. Over time, people were encouraged to build the other half as they saw fit. [1] Episode 231 - Half a House - http://99percentinvisible.org/episod…

There's a famous National Geographic photo of a cookie-cutter suburb an hour east of Mexico City. [0] Identical brand new tiny homes in cheerful monotone colors extend into the distance.

If you visit that neighborhood today, you can see the results of laws very different from those in American suburbs. Most of the houses have been expanded. Each one has grown in a different way. They've been repainted different colors, there are Virgin of Guadalupe icons and paintings and Aztec designs and decorations and every other kind of individualistic expression all over. Small shops have opened to provide typical neighborhood corner store services and light industry like auto repair and electronics servicing is going on during the day. Lots of the car parking has been enclosed and some has been eliminated entirely in favor of more living space. [1]

All of those changes would be illegal in the vast majority of American suburbs. When older American cities were built, the laws were more like Mexican laws and neighborhoods could grow up with residents and families and provide local services and develop character.

Plus, the Mexican neighborhood and older American neighborhoods are significantly denser than new American suburbs, without being remotely like really dense development. That makes things much more accessible by walking and creates more cooperation.

That's the difference a reasonably open and humble set of laws makes.

[0] http://www.nationalgeographic.com/photography/photo-of-the-d...

[1] Try a satellite or street view somewhere around 19º18'30'' N and 98º51'30'' W

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#85

Post by emodendroket »

lawpoop wrote: post #81
emodendroket wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That system worked because of a tremendous number of slaves, though.

Well, since that time, we've moved away from slavery to labor saving machines. Since we're at a point where many people are under-employed, and we expect many more to become so, we can probably re-institute something like this. After all, the United States was a crazy experiment to revive 2,000-year-old Greek idea called 'Democracy'. While we did have slaves at the beginning, we have managed to enfranchise all adults…

> Since we're at a point where many people are under-employed, and we expect many more to become so, we can probably re-institute something like this.

Call me old-fashioned but I don't think locking people in as a permanent underclass is a good idea.

And practically speaking I'm not sure how a slave society where the slaveholders have special rights to participate in democratic society is an improvement over a system where poor people have trouble participating because of their jobs or their resources but not because they don't have the right to.

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#86

Post by dragonwriter »

lawpoop wrote: post #81
emodendroket wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That system worked because of a tremendous number of slaves, though.

Well, since that time, we've moved away from slavery to labor saving machines. Since we're at a point where many people are under-employed, and we expect many more to become so, we can probably re-institute something like this. After all, the United States was a crazy experiment to revive 2,000-year-old Greek idea called 'Democracy'. While we did have slaves at the beginning, we have managed to enfranchise all adults…

> After all, the United States was a crazy experiment to revive 2,000-year-old Greek idea called 'Democracy'.

Not really. Representative democracy as the substantive form of government was an established tradition in Britain and it's North American colonies long before the US (a prime motivation for the revolution was perceived increasing deviation from that norm by the central government in respect to the administration of the colonies in the period leading up to the revolution.)

Insofar as the US (under the Constitution, at least) was an experiment in government, it wasn't in revive a dormant concept of "democracy", but in vigorously and fairly explicitly adopting the novel tripartite separation of powers model of Montesquieu.

> we have managed to enfranchise all adults politically.

No, we haven't. We have in principle (though less so in practice) eliminated certain bases of disenfranchisement, but it is not the case that the US has, at any point, enfranchised the entire adult population, even on theory, much less in fact.

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#87

Post by obstinate »

lawpoop wrote: post #83
angry-hacker wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your onto something. Of course such things are extremely subjective. One thing I have noticed that bothers me with new developments are trees. They are always short, because they are still young. Hence they have no character, yet. Storms haven't ripped them, they haven't been shared when they cover someone's window from sunlight. And if course they are always perfectly aligned and usually rounded with a squar…

Those trees are also selected to have a pleasing shape while they are young, not drop anything untoward like too many flowers, spiky balls, rotting fruits, pits, etc., grow relatively quickly, etc. In other words the trees are as sterile and monoculture as the architecture.

As someone who has a tree that drops a lot of spiky balls in my front yard, I wouldn't mind if it were something that was attractive yet easy to maintain. Trees aren't sterile simply by virtue of being chosen for the convenience of their owners.

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#88

Post by adolph »

exclusiv wrote: post #61
adolph wrote: post #45

I don't understand the author's argument. Is it "spiff up the 'poor' neighborhoods so the inhabitants will pay more property taxes?" When I look at the map, it looks like most of the city is lightly in the red and it has several extremely red areas which may drive most of the losses. What is driving those? Are they stadiums or large government facilities that aren't taxable? Or maybe middle-aged neighborhoods with se…

That's what it sounded like to me. He said they'd take a block of 50k houses to turn into 55k houses which will pay more taxes (and since the area is poor it requires less funds to service). So it's a better investment than affluent areas from a direct profitability metric. Of course, the bump in those home's property tax revenue wouldn't drive other revenue like investing in making a downtown more upscale would: mor…

Another problem with the author's assertions is that Louisiana in general has some of the lowest property taxes in the country. To the degree that this limits municipal revenue is the degree that a city can't spend a lot on infrastructure.

Please don't take this comment as advocacy for a higher tax rate, simply recognition of the financial structure; you get what you pay for, or in the case of muni bonds what other people think future residents will pay for.

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#89

Post by twblalock »

hguant wrote: post #13
aglavine wrote: post #9

Isn't the article describing the classic Gentrification move?

No, because the gentrification move would be to buy up those $50,000 dollar houses, renovate them/replace with a condo block and drive out the local residents. Gentrification comes from developers, whereas what he's describing comes from the city itself. Key quotes: "It's wealth that is shared throughout the neighborhood." -- about as anti-gentrification as you can get. "American cities can make low risk, high return…

Gentrification does not always come from developers.

Consider what is happening in some of the rougher parts of downtown San Jose: people are moving in to the existing houses and either renovating them or living in them as-is. Few developers are involved in most of these areas so far -- they are simply the last remaining "affordable" areas in the city, but not for long. Home values in those neighborhoods have appreciated about $100k per house over the past several years.

This is also going to happen in Oakland, and it is probably happening already in some neighborhoods.

The bottom line is that gentrification does not have to be driven by developers. When demand far outstrips supply as it does in the Bay Area today, the wealthy end up in direct competition with the poor over the same housing, and the wealthy will simply outbid the poor.

Re: Poor Neighborhoods Make the Best Investments

#90

Post by cderwin »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #60
ryandrake wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why national US voting is held mid-day on a Tuesday. Sure you have mail-in ballots now, but the default in-person voting time/date is surely deliberately designed to favor a particular demographic.

Technically it's on a Tuesday because back in 1845 people needed a travel day to get to the ballot box and another day to travel back, and you can't travel on the Christian Sabbath, so that only leaves Tuesday - Friday as options. https://www.bustle.com/articles/192414-why-do-we-vote-on-tue... Why is it still on a Tuesday? I think your reason is spot on.

Perhaps, but isn't it just as reasonable that they didn't want to change it? Presumably changing the date would actually censor the vote, with it being nearly impossible to get word of the date change to the entire electorate.
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