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Open offices are bad for us

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Re: Open offices are bad for us

#151

Post by Paul-ish »

a1a wrote: post #81
muninn_ wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like cities and human development, there should be different areas for different types of work and different people. Maybe you're a programmer and you want 100% silence, that should be available. Maybe you're like me, who gets a lot more done in a small, focused group. You should be able to squat in a collaboration room all day and get shit done. Maybe you don't mind ambient noise, and like to sit on a couch to work…

That's one of the main takeaways from the story tho. In an open office those who need silence cannot get it, even if there are private rooms available: "Some of us even feel that escaping to a quiet room is a sign of weakness" and "it can feel as if we’re not pulling our weight if we’re not present"

One thing that that would bother me in that situation is I do not enjoy doing work on laptops. I prefer to work from a desktop where the monitor (1) reasonably sized, (2) at eye level. I also prefer a full sized mouse and keyboard, as I feel handicapped by a trackpad. Most quiet places do not have this, so I am effectively chained to my desk, where my desktop is.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#152

Post by Crusse »

jonas21 wrote: post #136
a1a wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the main takeaways from the story tho. In an open office those who need silence cannot get it, even if there are private rooms available: "Some of us even feel that escaping to a quiet room is a sign of weakness" and "it can feel as if we’re not pulling our weight if we’re not present"

Over ear headphones are a pretty good workaround if you don't want to be distracted by the noise.

Watch your volume levels, though, if you're listening to music. A few years' worth of listening to metal with noise cancelling headphones trying to drone out the noise has probably contributed to the slight tinnitus I'm having.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#153

Post by BoorishBears »

hasenj wrote: post #117

I like open offices because I want to feel like I'm working with people, not in solitary confinement. When I'm alone in a private room, I'm usually playing; not working. I find it incredibly difficult to get into working flow when in a private space. I'm sure I'm not the only one. That's why people go to cafes to work when they have to work "from home".

I think part of the difference for me as far as the atmosphere in a coffee shop (for example) vs an open office is the office has voices you recognize and listen to.

If a voice I recognized said something in the general drone of a coffee shop I'd be momentarily distracted while I turned around to see where the voice came from.

In my current open office I find myself working to filter out what people are saying a lot more than I would in a setting with the same amount of noise, but nothing concerning me.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#154

Post by taway_1212 »

jasode wrote: post #96
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strangely, open offices with cubicles can be more expensive than building drywall walls to make closed offices. And the much-vaunted flexibility of cubicles is way, way overrated. In my experience, cubicles sit in the same place for years. Any benefit of re-using them is lost. Also if the company is growing, new ones get bought all the time, so old ones aren't re-used anyway. Its obvious on the face of it: re-usable…

>We need some kind of vaccine to combat it. The vaccine is a startup that is 10x (or even just 2x) better than everyone else because they use private offices. Since that hypothetical business hasn't yet proven that idea, all the articles from journalists writing about "open offices bad" are just preaching to the choir. Even the common cited reason for open offices being "saves real estate costs" is questionable. As a…

>> We need some kind of vaccine to combat it. > The vaccine is a startup that is 10x (or even just 2x) better than everyone else because they use private offices.

At Trello everyone is either remote or has a private office. I'm not sure how to prove that they're 2x (I'd say it's too vague to be provable), but they've managed to do well without taking large amounts of investment, which speaks well of their productivity.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#155

Post by logfromblammo »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #30
smelendez wrote: post #21

Open offices are awful, but they're here to stay for the same reason more adults are living with roommates and relatives: high real estate prices. Working remotely is one solution, but many companies don't think it would work for them. Personally, I'd make the shared area for solitary work only: no work discussions longer than a minute at work areas (use a conference room, take a walk or Slack), no eating at work are…

Strangely, open offices with cubicles can be more expensive than building drywall walls to make closed offices. And the much-vaunted flexibility of cubicles is way, way overrated. In my experience, cubicles sit in the same place for years. Any benefit of re-using them is lost. Also if the company is growing, new ones get bought all the time, so old ones aren't re-used anyway. Its obvious on the face of it: re-usable…

The vaccine already exists. It was introduced to the US in 1786.

Metaphorically speaking, many of our peers believe that this vaccine causes autism. It occasionally does cause illness more severe than those vaccinated against.

It's collective bargaining through a cartel of skilled laborers. Unions.

But like Brundlefly, those infected managers don't believe they have a disease. They're not getting worse, they're getting better (as they turn into monsters).

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#156

Post by Arizhel »

toast0 wrote: post #39
kdamken wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Fuck that. I don't normally curse on here, but I think it's warranted. I own a great pair of over ear, noise cancelling headphones. But I shouldn't have to risk damaging my hearing because management thinks having developers sit in the middle of a bunch of salespeople and project managers is a good idea.

Headphones don't damage your hearing, headphones at high volume damage hearing. If you're using noise cancelling (or just closed ear in most environments), you can listen to your audio at a reasonable volume, if you're listening at high volume to drown out other noise that could be dangerous.

Noise-canceling headphones do not cancel out conversations, so you must listen at high volume to drown out that other noise.

The only thing noise-canceling headphones are really good for is canceling out constant drone, for things such as fan noise and jet engine drone. That's why they're so popular for frequent airplane travelers. They do absolutely nothing if you're in an office surrounded by yapping coworkers (at least nothing more than a comparable set of non-noise-canceling headphones).

In fact, I'll add that if I'm surrounded by a bunch of computers with fan noise, using noise-canceling headphones lets me hear coworkers' conversations even better.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#157

Post by dalyons »

I personally love open offices. Collaboration benefits aside, I like people and I'd go insane working in a silent solo prison every day (been there!). The meme of "open offices are terrible for everyone and it's only evil management that likes them" is bullcrap. Myself and a lot of other people I know prefer them. Guess what, people are different!

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#158

Post by Arizhel »

daemoncoder wrote: post #51
chinathrow wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A million time this. Ear damage accumulates over time. I am sure that excessive headphone usage at work will be number one reason of hearing loss in a few years. Unless we turn things around.

One doesn't actually have to listen to anything through the headphones. I've used noise cancelling without music in the past. I also have a set of earbud rubber thingies that have been stoppered with hot glue and a short piece of hollow lolly stick. Those fit better (don't feel itchy after long periods) and provide more isolation than the squishy yellow ear protectors.

Nose canceling headphones don't work for blocking conversations.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#160

Post by hx87 »

bigmanwalter wrote: post #14
grokas wrote: post #3

"Nearly 50% of people working in open offices are dissatisfied with their sound privacy" Should be: Nearly 50% of people working in open offices don't have good over-ear headphones.

Except prolonged exposure to headphones makes you go deaf. I've got enough hearing loss as it is.

It's not headphones, it's loudness. Just don't crank the volume on your headphones and you'll be fine.
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