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Open offices are bad for us

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Re: Open offices are bad for us

#51

Post by daemoncoder »

chinathrow wrote: post #15
kdamken wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Fuck that. I don't normally curse on here, but I think it's warranted. I own a great pair of over ear, noise cancelling headphones. But I shouldn't have to risk damaging my hearing because management thinks having developers sit in the middle of a bunch of salespeople and project managers is a good idea.

A million time this. Ear damage accumulates over time. I am sure that excessive headphone usage at work will be number one reason of hearing loss in a few years. Unless we turn things around.

One doesn't actually have to listen to anything through the headphones. I've used noise cancelling without music in the past.

I also have a set of earbud rubber thingies that have been stoppered with hot glue and a short piece of hollow lolly stick. Those fit better (don't feel itchy after long periods) and provide more isolation than the squishy yellow ear protectors.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#52

Post by jMyles »

audunw wrote: post #20
jMyles wrote: post #4

Am I the only one left on HN who prefers open plan? I've done some of my best work for open plan companies. I have a particularly fond memory of when Reelio rented space at Blueprint (healthcare incubator in NYC). We stayed up very late, listened to loud music, and did some of the best work of our lives. I remember one night in particular, listening to the soundtrack from "O Brother Where Art Thou," when asynchrony a…

There's plenty of people who like open plan. I think the main issue people have is the idea that open plan is superior, and how companies have adopted the plan without any thought or scrutiny (coming up with all sorts of bullshit reason, to rationalize a decision which is really about trying to save money) For a startup or small company doing mostly plain development, and especially if it's a tight-nit group that sta…

I hear you. I prefer floor plans that cater to the mood of the team, rather than setting out some one-size-fits-all-every-day notion of productivity.

Thus, it's nice to have open space, but also cozy, comfortable environs for solo- or small-team work.

W+K in Portland accomplishes this masterfully.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#53

Post by dx034 »

Raphmedia wrote: post #19

Diseases and sickness are the worst part of open offices. One day one person gets sick. The second day the person to his left also gets sick. The day after, half of the open office is sick. After a week, the entire office is sick. You can almost track the migration of the disease across the room.

That's why good managers will tell their employee to go home when they're ill. There are companies that have strict policies for that, to avoid exactly this problem. Even though it's a problem that probably mostly affects flexible working space. If you don't share your desk with anyone else, you should usually be >3ft away from other people, lowering the risk for contagion.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#54

Post by levelist_com »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #30
smelendez wrote: post #21

Open offices are awful, but they're here to stay for the same reason more adults are living with roommates and relatives: high real estate prices. Working remotely is one solution, but many companies don't think it would work for them. Personally, I'd make the shared area for solitary work only: no work discussions longer than a minute at work areas (use a conference room, take a walk or Slack), no eating at work are…

Strangely, open offices with cubicles can be more expensive than building drywall walls to make closed offices. And the much-vaunted flexibility of cubicles is way, way overrated. In my experience, cubicles sit in the same place for years. Any benefit of re-using them is lost. Also if the company is growing, new ones get bought all the time, so old ones aren't re-used anyway. Its obvious on the face of it: re-usable…

I agree. I used to design voice and data networks for call centers and I would always be part of the planning phase. A lot of times I would have to go with call center owners when they would go inspect cubicles they found and potentially wanted to buy, so as to answer any questions about how they will be connected to power, network, etc.. I was always amazed at just how expensive cubicles were. I mean, for what they are. One of the call centers was owned by a construction company. They originally went with cubes but in their next call center they built cubes out of drywall, not quite offices obviously - but looked really good, at mere fraction of the cost.

As a person that has worked in both open and closed floor plans, ill just say this, I miss working from home and cant wait to go back.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#55

Post by jMyles »

quanticle wrote: post #9
jMyles wrote: post #4

Am I the only one left on HN who prefers open plan? I've done some of my best work for open plan companies. I have a particularly fond memory of when Reelio rented space at Blueprint (healthcare incubator in NYC). We stayed up very late, listened to loud music, and did some of the best work of our lives. I remember one night in particular, listening to the soundtrack from "O Brother Where Art Thou," when asynchrony a…

No offense, but I would suggest that you are highly atypical as a programmer. The vast majority of programmers (including myself) that I've spoken with prefer quiet, static backgrounds. Now, that's not to say that you need your own office to provide a quiet, static background, but it's just a whole lot easier that way. I interviewed last year at a very "tech-bro" type office in downtown Seattle. It was exactly as you…

> It was exactly as you described your office. It was not even three in the afternoon, and they had some loud European techno playing.

...but that's... not how I described the office in question.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#56

Post by amyjess »

audunw wrote: post #20
jMyles wrote: post #4

Am I the only one left on HN who prefers open plan? I've done some of my best work for open plan companies. I have a particularly fond memory of when Reelio rented space at Blueprint (healthcare incubator in NYC). We stayed up very late, listened to loud music, and did some of the best work of our lives. I remember one night in particular, listening to the soundtrack from "O Brother Where Art Thou," when asynchrony a…

There's plenty of people who like open plan. I think the main issue people have is the idea that open plan is superior, and how companies have adopted the plan without any thought or scrutiny (coming up with all sorts of bullshit reason, to rationalize a decision which is really about trying to save money) For a startup or small company doing mostly plain development, and especially if it's a tight-nit group that sta…

> I prefer sharing an office with 1-3 others. You still get the social interaction, but without too much distraction. It's a pretty good compromise.

In the past, I've shared an office with one other, and I've shared an office with three others.

Sharing an office with one other person was great, especially when the desks were arranged so we both had our backs to the wall. I'd gladly do it again.

Sharing an office with three others was a nightmare. It could have been worse: at least I got along with my officemates, but the lack of privacy got to me badly, especially given that the desks were arranged so none of our backs were to a wall (I even faced the window... beautiful view, but the glare got to me).

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#57

Post by [deleted] »

jMyles wrote: post #43
kbart wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We stayed up very late, listened to loud music, and did some of the best work of our lives." No offense, but that sounds like some kind of boys club, not professional working environment. Staying up late = no respect for private life (unless you've signed for it), loud arbitrary music = forced culture implications (why do I have to listen to the music you like?). Yes, probably our work place expectations differs imm…

Your comment doesn't resonate with me. Have you worked in an early- or mid-stage startup in NYC or the Bay Area in the past... 10 years? > No offense, but that sounds like some kind of boys club, not professional working environment That's a strange value judgment; I'm not really sure what to think about it. At the end of the day, the company is still growing and meeting its goals. It is also still facilitating the d…

[deleted]

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#58

Post by rubidium »

cnagele wrote: post #41

Hey everyone, Chris Nagele here from Wildbit. For some background, I wrote about our reasons for moving to a private office plan. In short, it's more than putting on some headphones. http://wildbit.com/blog/2015/03/06/wildbit-hq-ending-the-ope... And a tour of the office itself: http://wildbit.com/blog/2015/08/05/wildbit-office-tour

Can you provide an estimate of total build cost / employee?

It's a nice looking space, but likely only attainable for high margin industries like software engineering.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#59

Post by dx034 »

One recommendation for everyone who suffers in an open office: BrainFM.

Not affiliated with it, but saw it here on HN on a thread about music, tried it out and I love it. I listen to it daily, have probably heard each track at least a hundred times, but it still helps me to focus. With the right headphones (isolating so that volume can be low), I can zoom out and ignore everything around me. Haven't found any other music that can do that, especially when I really have to focus (e.g. reading complicated texts).

Don't know if it really works or if it's just psychological, but I don't care as long as it helps me. Made my life in the office much easier.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#60

Post by Freak_NL »

Researcher Theo Compernolle wrote about the open office in his book Brainchains. To help anyone convince management and colleagues that the open plan office creates an environment detrimental to our well-being, he has published a free excerpt of his work:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByN-2IZSJqvxY0pyRnZhV0c0Qm8...

Useful if you are fighting for change in your work environment.

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