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Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

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Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#81

Post by benley »

ClayFerguson wrote: post #71

The absolute LAST thing the world needed in 2016 was another programming language. Google did with Dart precisely what Microsoft tried to do when they (MSFT) created a proprietary JavaScript back in 1997(ish). Big tech companies just have a lot of hubris and want to "own" everything they touch. Any large software company, given enough time and success, will eventually create it's own programming language. It's just i…

You are aware that Dart was not released in 2016, yes? The first public release was in 2011.

Feel free to stick only to your company's Recommended Best Practices Industry Standard Languages and Libraries. But, there are lots of languages out there, and many of us have good reasons for using them. Deal with it.

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#83

Post by acchow »

ClayFerguson wrote: post #71

The absolute LAST thing the world needed in 2016 was another programming language. Google did with Dart precisely what Microsoft tried to do when they (MSFT) created a proprietary JavaScript back in 1997(ish). Big tech companies just have a lot of hubris and want to "own" everything they touch. Any large software company, given enough time and success, will eventually create it's own programming language. It's just i…

> In my opinion there are three languages that need to still exist: Java, JavaScript/TypesScript, and C++

How many languages do you know well and which are they? How many years have you been programming? Do you know Haskell and Lisp? Have you done any work in econometrics or bioinformatics?

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#84

Post by pjmlp »

ceronman wrote: post #21

You don't always have to jump to the hype train! Yes, you don't hear much about Dart here on HN, but the project is far from dead. The most important thing is that Dart works, it's stable and production ready and it's being used in production not only by Google but also by other companies. Dart is a very refreshing change for front-end development. No fatigue! Great tooling, nice language without surprises and option…

For me the project died when Google decided it wasn't worth it to support it any longer in Chrome and Angular team decided to use TypeScript instead.

Regarding Flutter, I watched the conference where it was presented and none of the devices I own was able to launch the application.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.flutter.gal...

Unless Google does actually use the language to the point a few well known companies think it is valuable to use in their own products and talk about it, e.g. "X rewrote Z in Dart", I don't see much of a future to the language.

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#85

Post by pjmlp »

attractivechaos wrote: post #57
stupidcar wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it has a lot to do with internal Google politics. Back in 2004, Google hired Lars Bak and his team (who had previously created the HotSpot VM for Sun) to create the V8 JS engine for Chrome. Their work was a spectacular success. Overnight, JS became one of the fastest dynamic languages in existence, and this ushered in an arms-race for better JS performance across competing browsers. However, after a few yea…

Thanks for the retrospect. I always think Dart has lots of potentials. It could be a great general-purpose programming language, as versatile as perl/python/ruby while tens of times faster than them all. Unfortunately, the dart developers are too obsessed about web programming and reluctant to embrace the bigger world. It is really a pity. PS: when dart came out, javascript was already blazingly fast (as a dynamic la…

> A capable JIT compiled dynamic language may change how we program.

You mean Lisp? AOT/JIT available since the 70's.

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#86

Post by flukus »

attractivechaos wrote: post #57
stupidcar wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it has a lot to do with internal Google politics. Back in 2004, Google hired Lars Bak and his team (who had previously created the HotSpot VM for Sun) to create the V8 JS engine for Chrome. Their work was a spectacular success. Overnight, JS became one of the fastest dynamic languages in existence, and this ushered in an arms-race for better JS performance across competing browsers. However, after a few yea…

Thanks for the retrospect. I always think Dart has lots of potentials. It could be a great general-purpose programming language, as versatile as perl/python/ruby while tens of times faster than them all. Unfortunately, the dart developers are too obsessed about web programming and reluctant to embrace the bigger world. It is really a pity. PS: when dart came out, javascript was already blazingly fast (as a dynamic la…

Seems like nim and crystal would fill that void better, maybe even rust.

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#87

Post by pjmlp »

myth_drannon wrote: post #66
cutler wrote: post #6

Indeed.com has 0 Dart jobs by title and TIOBE is a joke. Given that Google uses about 4 languages routinely (Go, Java, Python & Dart) this is nothing more than internal back-patting with no relevance outside the Googleplex.

Pascal is still top 20 on TIOBE and growing in popularity ... ok.

In Germany and Netherlands there are quite a few companies using Delphi, to the point there are conferences organized, just like any other mainstream language.

This was the last one in Germany.

https://entwickler-konferenz.de/de/

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#88

Post by Kiro »

morecoffee wrote: post #68
nostrademons wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a really weird story. stupidcar's post basically describes the early history. It was always kind of an ugly stepchild with the Chrome management when I was at Google - had some incredibly talented engineers working on it, but little executive buy-in. But then sometime while Chrome was ignoring it, some ads engineers (who are also incredibly talented) decided that Dart would be a core language in their new ads pl…

How long will it be before Google's Angular becomes popular, and the company decides it isn't economical to have two javascript-ish languages? My money is on Typescript.

Are you saying Angular is not already popular?

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#89

Post by lenkite »

kelvin0 wrote: post #42

OK, so I started dabbling with Dart and wanted I've been wanting to do this for 3 years. Please bear in mind, I want to use Dart because coding in JS directly is not something I thoroughly enjoyed the last time I built a 'real' Web App. This is not a critique of Dart, it's just my recent experience ... if any of the points I make here make no sense, please correct me (I really don't want to use JS anymore!) So I star…

I think officially recommended web framework for Dart is angular and not react.
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