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Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

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Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#71

Post by ClayFerguson »

The absolute LAST thing the world needed in 2016 was another programming language. Google did with Dart precisely what Microsoft tried to do when they (MSFT) created a proprietary JavaScript back in 1997(ish). Big tech companies just have a lot of hubris and want to "own" everything they touch. Any large software company, given enough time and success, will eventually create it's own programming language. It's just in their nature. It's the natural progression of market domination.

They COULD contribute their efforts to improving EXISTING languages (like MSFT finally did to their credit with TypeScript, building on non-Proprietary JS, which is great) but there is a seemingly irresistible allure to the thought of owning the design and molding a language to perfectly fit your own company's desires. You never have to deal with standards, when you're just making it up as you go along. PLUS the massive benefit of the anti-competitive foot-hold (monopolistic foot-hold) that having its own language gives to a company, is just too tempting. They cannot resist.

However most developers are sick of the lanuage-Thrash. 99% of it is not innovative in the slightest, but just somebody reinventing and resolving problems that have already been invented and solved countless times before. I really really hope dart dies (and GO can also go). In my opinion there are three languages that need to still exist: Java, JavaScript/TypesScript, and C++. Those fill EVERY need, and if the innovators would ADD TO THOSE rather than starting from scratch and pushing the reset button the software world would be a MUCH better place, and so would overall software quality.

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#72

Post by statsmatscats »

attractivechaos wrote: post #57
stupidcar wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it has a lot to do with internal Google politics. Back in 2004, Google hired Lars Bak and his team (who had previously created the HotSpot VM for Sun) to create the V8 JS engine for Chrome. Their work was a spectacular success. Overnight, JS became one of the fastest dynamic languages in existence, and this ushered in an arms-race for better JS performance across competing browsers. However, after a few yea…

Thanks for the retrospect. I always think Dart has lots of potentials. It could be a great general-purpose programming language, as versatile as perl/python/ruby while tens of times faster than them all. Unfortunately, the dart developers are too obsessed about web programming and reluctant to embrace the bigger world. It is really a pity. PS: when dart came out, javascript was already blazingly fast (as a dynamic la…

Julia is a general purpose language

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#74

Post by bitmapbrother »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #55
ceronman wrote: post #21

You don't always have to jump to the hype train! Yes, you don't hear much about Dart here on HN, but the project is far from dead. The most important thing is that Dart works, it's stable and production ready and it's being used in production not only by Google but also by other companies. Dart is a very refreshing change for front-end development. No fatigue! Great tooling, nice language without surprises and option…

I've looked into Dart a few times and thought it looked interesting, but never really dug much into it. I've also really only heard of it being used in Google. Oh, and I remember hearing Notch was using it in a game jam a few years back. I saw Flutter when it was first announced, and something that caught my eye back then was that it looked like it took some inspiration from React. I'm a big fan of React. Their home…

The Chrome Dev tools are nice, but I'll take full integration with IntelliJ IDE any day.

https://flutter.io/intellij-ide/

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#75

Post by bitmapbrother »

shagie wrote: post #63
ceronman wrote: post #21

You don't always have to jump to the hype train! Yes, you don't hear much about Dart here on HN, but the project is far from dead. The most important thing is that Dart works, it's stable and production ready and it's being used in production not only by Google but also by other companies. Dart is a very refreshing change for front-end development. No fatigue! Great tooling, nice language without surprises and option…

As noted in http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ the changes in google's indexing algorithms caused massive swings in their index. If you search google for "Java programming" and "C programming" you'll note approximately the same ratio of the "Java ratings" to "C ratings". The results of the toibe index are heavily influenced by google's search. People working on Dart working at google would likely be familiar with how…

>The results of the toibe index are heavily influenced by google's search.

From TIOBE:

The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. Popular search engines such as Google, Bing, Yahoo!, Wikipedia, Amazon, YouTube and Baidu are used to calculate the ratings. It is important to note that the TIOBE index is not about the best programming language or the language in which most lines of code have been written.

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#76

Post by thewhitetulip »

Okay so a naive and stupid question, why do I use Dart? what does it replace? does it have any frameworks other than angular? can I use it with Vue.JS (since I have spent considerable time learning Vue)

I tried reading their website multiple times, each of the time I was left confused as to where the language fit

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#77

Post by j1436go »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #55
ceronman wrote: post #21

You don't always have to jump to the hype train! Yes, you don't hear much about Dart here on HN, but the project is far from dead. The most important thing is that Dart works, it's stable and production ready and it's being used in production not only by Google but also by other companies. Dart is a very refreshing change for front-end development. No fatigue! Great tooling, nice language without surprises and option…

I've looked into Dart a few times and thought it looked interesting, but never really dug much into it. I've also really only heard of it being used in Google. Oh, and I remember hearing Notch was using it in a game jam a few years back. I saw Flutter when it was first announced, and something that caught my eye back then was that it looked like it took some inspiration from React. I'm a big fan of React. Their home…

I'm missing autocompletion for vim.

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#78

Post by leftrightupdown »

kelvin0 wrote: post #53
leftrightupdown wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what we do at listshine is run code on dartium in checked mode. when it works 100% then we build js version in staging and after that is confirmed to work then we do production build. debugging dart code is faster and better in dartium

OK, but what if I am using JS interop code? Dartium still won't help me, because I still need to go through the layer which allows to 'glue' my Dart code to the JS code.

That is true but part that is in dart will be easier to debug

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#79

Post by attractivechaos »

statsmatscats wrote: post #72
attractivechaos wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the retrospect. I always think Dart has lots of potentials. It could be a great general-purpose programming language, as versatile as perl/python/ruby while tens of times faster than them all. Unfortunately, the dart developers are too obsessed about web programming and reluctant to embrace the bigger world. It is really a pity. PS: when dart came out, javascript was already blazingly fast (as a dynamic la…

Julia is a general purpose language

Julia focuses too much on numerical programming, which makes it great for matlab users, but awkward for other purposes.
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