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Mac’s share falls to five-year low

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Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#121

Post by Yetanfou »

jameslk wrote: post #36

I keeping hearing the narrative from this crowd that the MBP is on its way out of being in vogue for developers, but I don't buy it at all. First of all, this is market share up to the release of the new MBP. It's not surprising that their market share has been slipping given that up to this point they haven't released a significant update to the MBP since 2013. But getting to the point, the Mac ecosystem is now ingr…

   the Mac ecosystem is now ingrained into open source development.
Where do you get this from, other than screenshots with red-orange-green buttons in the window decoration on github?

   software built to run on Linux servers runs best
   under an environment that is designed more like Linux.
   He now owns a MBP.
And what does he run on that machine? If he uses it to run 'software built to run on Linux servers' he might just run Linux on the thing and be done with it. It is what I'd do, minus the MBP that is.

   That leaves us with what, Linux itself as the OS
Indeed, for the stated purpose of developing software which is to run on Linux I'd certainly use Linux.

   Anyone who suggests doing this either hasn't done it 
   before or has way too much time on their hands.
I do have a lot of time on my hands, part of which is due to my use of Linux. Integrated package management which actually works, servers which only ever go down to upgrade the kernel or because of physical damage (lightning strikes, etc), no forced upgrade path, no planned obsolescence, no need to hunt the 'net for drivers (where did you get the idea from that Linux users still need to do that? Times have changed since I started using Linux, back in 1992...). As an added bonus I can install Linux on anything I want, try that with MacOS and you'll soon know what it really means to 'hunt for drivers' or 'understand an obscure error discussed in a long forum thread'. And before you ask why you'd want to install MacOS on something else beside that which carries the Apple logo, realise that the deeper you buy yourself into the Apple world, the harder it will be for you to buy yourself out again when Apple finally decides your niche is not the market they should serve.

   I fully expect this release to be their Windows 8 moment
I think this is more comparable to their Mac Pro moment, or maybe their Macbook Air moment.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#122

Post by electic »

quickben wrote: post #63
electic wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. I used to build PCs as well. I even had a review site that received 2MM uniques a month and manufacturers would send me motherboards and top end video cards, for free, to review. I loved making PCs but would I trade my Macbook Pro and go back to a PC/Windows setup, no. I don't imagine anyone would want to go thru that. Getting a case, fiddling with screws, power supplies, Video Card, and CPUs. Even worse, it i…

Arguably, you a trading the chance to lose 800 with a guaranteed loss of around that much, just by paying the Apple premium.

800 is the tip of the iceberg. There is a lot that "just works" in an Apple ecosystem.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#123

Post by eridius »

eikenberry wrote: post #61
fritzw wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second you compile one package to get any of those boxes to work, for me, the pro-linux box argument is negated. Particularly for work machines, I don't have time to compile and install just to get my box up and running. Mac worked for me for this reason, I presume the reasons are the same for many. You like the freedom and power your boxes allot you, I like the simple operation of the mac. My problem is Macs are…

> The second you compile one package to get any of those boxes to work, for me, the pro-linux box argument is negated. This seems a strange things to say considering everyone I know who uses a Mac for dev uses homebrew, which compiles as part of the install.

The "to get any of those boxes to work" part is, I think, the key part of that quoted statement. Homebrew may compile things (if there is no binary download available), but you don't need Homebrew to make your Mac functional.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#124

Post by eridius »

58028641 wrote: post #115
shock wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you exit insert mode?

Using caps lock as escape is pretty common. I think there is a virtual escape button on the touch bar.

There is a virtual escape. Personally, I have "jk" mapped to escape (whereas Caps Lock is rebound to Control system-wide).

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#125

Post by kelseydh »

pfranz wrote: post #116
kelseydh wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just developers" Developers are not trivial. Good developers lead to good apps, which lead to a better ecosystem. The technically savvy are also the ones who set the trends about what the rest of the curve adopts. This is only going to grow more true as creative work (coding, design, etc) becomes a larger and larger part of our economy.

Apple Developers are a prerequisite for a good Apple third-party ecosystem. Especially if you expect the software to be idiomatic to the platform. But in this case we're talking about web developers or developers for open source server software--not Apple desktop or iOS software. For a very long time Perl and Apache served the web while Photoshop and Illustrator ran fine on a different platform. Windows had both IIS…

Apple is one of the largest companies in the world. Apple can and should be capable of robustly investing in both its desktop line and its paradigm-shifting blue sky projects.

Thinking otherwise is dangerously closed minded. Apple's products are more than just the sum of their individual parts. They exist as an ecosystem that gets strengthened every time one of their products can create value through interconnection. E.g. the value of an iPhone goes up when owners of it can seamlessly integrate calls or watch videos through the phone on their Mac OS X or Apple TV device.

Thinking these other, less profitable lines of Apple's business don't matter, or should just be milked for revenue is dangerous thinking that will lead to long term decline. Bleeding some money to keep the hardcore happy, so that those hardcore continue to set trends influencing what the rest of the general public wants, is a solid strategy that Apple should be pursuing.

The Mac OS X computing line one of the golden eggs of Apple -- granted not their shiniest any more thanks to the iPhone -- but still one of their golden eggs. It would be idiotic for them to allow that goose to die.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#126

Post by edblarney »

dkonofalski wrote: post #120
edblarney wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is definitely a fashion brand - and their marketing tactics and positioning are mostly aspirational - the underlying commodity is tech. This is why Apple hired Angela Andrents - who's background is 100% fashion (she re-built Burberry) and 0% technology. Think about that for a moment: the hired their #1 marketing person with ZERO tech background :). Who is the 'other' most powerful person at Apple? It's Johhny I…

You're talking a bunch of nonsense here. Apple hired Angela Ahrendts to be SVP of Apple Retail. That's why her experience with Burberry was important. She has nothing to do with the tech and development side, only retail. On the other side, Jony Ive isn't just a designer any more than Stephen Hawking is just a scientist . Ive is an industrial designer with heavy, diverse engineering background. His entire purpose is…

"You seem to be confusing Apple Retail for Apple as a whole."

You seem to misunderstand what Apple is actually selling, what 'Marketing' is and why a 'Designer' is the #2 guy at the company (or was).

They are a 'luxury brand' in the 'consumer products' segment - they are not a technology company. [1]

"I have always thought of Apple as a luxury brand," said Greg Furman, founder and chairman of The Luxury Marketing Council."

"Apple is not a technology company" [2]

The company stopped being a tech company over 10 years ago, and this might give you a hint as to why MacBooks have languished as they have moved onto wearables, and toying with cars.

[1] http://www.cnbc.com/2013/10/15/apple-is-a-luxury-brand-not-a...

[2] https://medium.com/chris-messina/silicon-valley-is-all-wrong...

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#127

Post by CamelCaseName »

eridius wrote: post #38
bitflipman wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what would be the best way to estimate OS market share? Stopping short from including household OS usage in worldwide census?

I'm not sure, but you could start by asking someone who's in a position to observe a much larger portion of internet usage. For example, I bet CloudFlare could collect some interesting statistics.

While CloudFlare would be a much better source, I think it's not so bad to compare a large number of sites, with their previous selves.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#128

Post by CamelCaseName »

electic wrote: post #122
quickben wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably, you a trading the chance to lose 800 with a guaranteed loss of around that much, just by paying the Apple premium.

800 is the tip of the iceberg. There is a lot that "just works" in an Apple ecosystem.

I was briefly an Macbook Pro user for four months (recently went back in late Dec.) could you talk a bit more about features that "just work" in Apple?

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#129

Post by CamelCaseName »

themihai wrote: post #100
dijit wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an odd sentiment to hear on HN. We are usually technical people, surely we can see past "spec" as the only differentiator of two laptops. Apple are priced like a high-end business quality laptop. (except upgrades are a higher mark-up) if you compare laptops based on the quality of their build Apple laptops are quite competitive.[0] That's before you factor in little things that don't seem to make it to busine…

You may compare apples to oranges because the CPU and other components may be slightly different(usually they are older and cheaper on the mac). It's a known fact that Apple has the highest(by far) margins on laptops. Apple used to be priced and marketed as a high-end business quality laptop but now I feel it's marked more as a lifestyle product.

No doubt a substantial amount of that margin comes from the economies of scale where you only have a handful of SKUs with comparable sales to some of the PC manufacturers with many more SKUs combined.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#130

Post by CamelCaseName »

dijit wrote: post #44
edblarney wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is definitely a fashion brand - and their marketing tactics and positioning are mostly aspirational - the underlying commodity is tech. This is why Apple hired Angela Andrents - who's background is 100% fashion (she re-built Burberry) and 0% technology. Think about that for a moment: the hired their #1 marketing person with ZERO tech background :). Who is the 'other' most powerful person at Apple? It's Johhny I…

It's not a zero-sum game, you can have talented designers and talented engineers working on the same product, as long as they are willing to actually work together. I evidenced an example of a laptop which is equivalent build quality (but is $1,000 more expensive at the same spec without discounts.)

I'm fairly new to ycombinator so perhaps I missed it, but can you link me again to this more expensive but equivalent laptop?
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