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The dream of Ara: Inside the rise and fall of Google’s most revolutionary phone

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Re: The dream of Ara: Inside the rise and fall of Google’s most revolutionary phone

#61

Post by ocdtrekkie »

femto wrote: post #42
swsieber wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The boon wasn't that consumers could customize their computers - it was that competitors could easy compete on individual parts because of the standardization.

A valid point! The economics of integration seems to be driving us towards single boxes which suit stifled competition? Is there an opening here for a non-manufacturing "open" standards body to emerge? They could publish mechanical specifications for a "click together phone" and a specification for a simple electrical bus/interconnect (use USB for everything?) One could envisage a series of standard exterior cases, b…

It basically won't happen until we have a competitive processor that's fully open. Nobody has a strong incentive to start a standards body when they can control a market instead.

Even when Google was still working on Ara, they planned to release the "Endo", or base frame, itself, and then just let vendors sell modules with a similar OEM partnership to how they control Android OEMs today.

Re: The dream of Ara: Inside the rise and fall of Google’s most revolutionary phone

#62

Post by guyzero »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #60
Apocryphon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Intel and Samsung could finally do something with the Tizen Association?

I feel like Samsung has been hedging their bets on this for a long time. Before Google struck a patent deal with them that also included some other capitulations, Samsung was heavily working on replacing Google apps with their own products and services. And they recently bought the Viv assistant, from the original creators of Siri. Given Google's terms likely forbid OEMs from setting a default voice assistant other t…

An android phone with Alexa was announced at CES. http://bgr.com/2017/01/05/huawei-mate-9-release-date-alexa-p...

Re: The dream of Ara: Inside the rise and fall of Google’s most revolutionary phone

#63

Post by ocdtrekkie »

flukus wrote: post #48
femto wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did the upgradeable PC ever really work, or did the vast majority of PCs sold go to the dump with exactly the same configuration as sold? After a few years, it becomes a cascade of dependencies: Can't upgrade memory because the old motherboard won't support state of the art DIMMs, the bus used by current cards (ISA, PCI, AGP, PCIx) doesn't match the motherboard, power supply connector has different number of pins, an…

> Did the upgradeable PC ever really work, or did the vast majority of PCs sold go to the dump with exactly the same configuration as sold? It worked in 90's and early 00's, particularly with RAM, hard drives and CD ROM drives. You could walk into a consumer electronic store and buy these drives stand alone, I don't think you can do that anymore. I was frequently upgrading friends and family computers for beer, anyon…

It's still true today if you buy non-"premium" laptops and boxy desktops still. DDR3 was the RAM of choice for a good long number of years, and SATA drive connectivity standards have reigned for even longer.

Stores like Fry's Electronics have major component offerings, and even at your Best Buy or Staples today there's generally a limited supply of standard replacement parts for conventional PCs.

Re: The dream of Ara: Inside the rise and fall of Google’s most revolutionary phone

#64

Post by ocdtrekkie »

guyzero wrote: post #62
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like Samsung has been hedging their bets on this for a long time. Before Google struck a patent deal with them that also included some other capitulations, Samsung was heavily working on replacing Google apps with their own products and services. And they recently bought the Viv assistant, from the original creators of Siri. Given Google's terms likely forbid OEMs from setting a default voice assistant other t…

An android phone with Alexa was announced at CES. http://bgr.com/2017/01/05/huawei-mate-9-release-date-alexa-p...

I did see that, but I suspect that either it won't be the default voice app on the device, or Google will threaten them into changing it before release. Or maybe they'll do some crazy double hotword thing where you can ask for Google or Alexa? I don't know, but Google's contracts are pretty ironclad if you want Play Store access on your phone.

As early as 2014 it was said that Google's confidental contracts with OEMs controlled the default voice assistant setup: https://www.theinformation.com/Google-s-Confidential-Android...

A lot of things are shown off at CES that never actually happen.

@flukus's comment below, since I hit my rate limit: Google is already under antitrust investigation for their practices with OEM contracts with Android in multiple jurisdictions internationally. The European Union case is ongoing. Russia has already ruled against Google and instructed them to release OEMs from the illegal provisions... so far Google has refused to comply with Russian law.

Re: The dream of Ara: Inside the rise and fall of Google’s most revolutionary phone

#65

Post by flukus »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #64
guyzero wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An android phone with Alexa was announced at CES. http://bgr.com/2017/01/05/huawei-mate-9-release-date-alexa-p...

I did see that, but I suspect that either it won't be the default voice app on the device, or Google will threaten them into changing it before release. Or maybe they'll do some crazy double hotword thing where you can ask for Google or Alexa? I don't know, but Google's contracts are pretty ironclad if you want Play Store access on your phone. As early as 2014 it was said that Google's confidental contracts with OEMs…

> I don't know, but Google's contracts are pretty ironclad if you want Play Store access on your phone.

How long until anti trust investigations begin?

Re: The dream of Ara: Inside the rise and fall of Google’s most revolutionary phone

#66

Post by acchow »

smallnamespace wrote: post #13
onli wrote: post #6

I don't get it. This is a IBM PC moment right here. Imagine you could standardize the smartphone. Really divide it into block, standardize the communication bus. Make it a PC. It would be huge, eat up the smartphone world, just like the PC ate up the homecomputers. I even think this is how Google would have beaten the iPhone. Android as the OS for an ever-evolving phone, where if a user needs more ram he would just a…

> Make it a PC. It would be huge, eat up the smartphone world, just like the PC ate up the homecomputers. I don't quite understand this point. PCs are inherently upgradeable, but it seems like consumers would rather treat them as disposable electronic devices, judging by the success of barely-upgradeable Macs and other laptops. And I'm not sure I blame them either, it's not like it's easy for a consumer with no techy…

> PCs are inherently upgradeable, but it seems like consumers would rather treat them as disposable electronic devices, judging by the success of barely-upgradeable Macs and other laptops.

Disposability is a side-effect of non-upgradeability - consumers don't explicitly want either of those, they just want a good product. And a good product can't be upgradeable.

See Daring Fireball's article on this: http://daringfireball.net/2011/09/new_apple_advantage

The money shot is, "Apple offers far fewer configurations. Thus MacBooks are, to most minds, subjectively better-designed — but objectively, they’re more designed. Apple makes more of the choices than do PC makers."

Re: The dream of Ara: Inside the rise and fall of Google’s most revolutionary phone

#67

Post by flukus »

21 wrote: post #30
bagrow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many smartphone users even know how much RAM they have? Smartphones are eating everything because they just work . Even more than PCs, which are also heavily commoditized these days. It seems like almost everyone thinks of upgrading computers and phones these days the way I would think of upgrading my microwave: by buying a new one. Is this a very western-centric view? Maybe... But it seems like everyone wants th…

Heck, I'm a software developer and I don't really know how much RAM my phone has.

I didn't until I discovered it wasn't enough to run pokemon go.

Re: The dream of Ara: Inside the rise and fall of Google’s most revolutionary phone

#68

Post by beambot »

serge2k wrote: post #41
beambot wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full modularity never made sense. The system-level tradeoffs for battery, screen, and antennas are just too astronomical. But one or two expansion slots... now that would've been revolutionary. You could add whatever mattered to you: medical devices, specialized cameras, etc. etc. etc. Instead we're left with shitty USB or audio jack dongles or detached Bluetooth devices. Suck.

> Instead we're left with shitty USB How is USB not a fantastic answer to the problem you described?

Dongles slapped on after the fact are a poor design. They ruin the ability to hold the device one handed, the ability to pocket the phone with the module attached, or add substantial bulk to cases that must be redesigned for every variant of phone.

USB is a decent electrical interconnect and API standard... But not a good cellphone mechanical modularity standard.

Re: The dream of Ara: Inside the rise and fall of Google’s most revolutionary phone

#69

Post by flukus »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #60
Apocryphon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Intel and Samsung could finally do something with the Tizen Association?

I feel like Samsung has been hedging their bets on this for a long time. Before Google struck a patent deal with them that also included some other capitulations, Samsung was heavily working on replacing Google apps with their own products and services. And they recently bought the Viv assistant, from the original creators of Siri. Given Google's terms likely forbid OEMs from setting a default voice assistant other t…

Instead of hedging their bets that way (software from hardware vendors almost always sucks) I wish they'd make themselves friendlier to other open source phones OS's, like ubuntu. Some of these OS's seem pretty nice, but the hardware side is always "buy a nexus and put this image on it".

Re: The dream of Ara: Inside the rise and fall of Google’s most revolutionary phone

#70

Post by voltagex_ »

serge2k wrote: post #41
beambot wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full modularity never made sense. The system-level tradeoffs for battery, screen, and antennas are just too astronomical. But one or two expansion slots... now that would've been revolutionary. You could add whatever mattered to you: medical devices, specialized cameras, etc. etc. etc. Instead we're left with shitty USB or audio jack dongles or detached Bluetooth devices. Suck.

> Instead we're left with shitty USB How is USB not a fantastic answer to the problem you described?

Possibly due to the placement of USB on most phones - at the bottom, where a drive would stick out awkwardly.

Also, MicroUSB on a lot of devices doesn't seem like the most robust port ever - I think it would eventually wear out with more than just the nightly plug/unplug for charging.

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