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Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

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Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#21

Post by ceronman »

You don't always have to jump to the hype train! Yes, you don't hear much about Dart here on HN, but the project is far from dead. The most important thing is that Dart works, it's stable and production ready and it's being used in production not only by Google but also by other companies.

Dart is a very refreshing change for front-end development. No fatigue! Great tooling, nice language without surprises and optional static typing.

On the backend you get probably the fastests dynamic language out there, maybe competing only with LuaGIT.

The new Flutter for high performance mobile app development looks seriously awesome. I specially love the instant live reloading.

Dart's package ecosystem (pub.dartlang.org) seems healthy with constant updates and new packages.

I have no idea how TIOBE works, but I find weird that people accuse Google of manipulating it to promote Dart. I believe it's the opposite, Google has done very little to promote Dart, and that's why you don't hear about it very often. I believe the project deserves more promotion because it's seriously good. Give it a try one of these days!

EDIT: I do not work for Google

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#22

Post by devsquid »

leftrightupdown wrote: post #17

We are writing spa frontend for email marketing service in dart. No angular, react, just lots of plain dart. Strong analyzer mode is used and dartium is always in checked mode. Dart shined most when we created drag and drop html editor. We like using it anl if anyone wants to know why we used dart ask for details. Check our app at listshine.com

Yea I found just using plane Dart to work really well. I preferred it over Angular. I had an entire functioning web app in about 80kbs, including all images, html, css, and JS. That was a while back, I'm sure its only gotten better.

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#23

Post by pseudosavant »

cutler wrote: post #6

Indeed.com has 0 Dart jobs by title and TIOBE is a joke. Given that Google uses about 4 languages routinely (Go, Java, Python & Dart) this is nothing more than internal back-patting with no relevance outside the Googleplex.

I don't want to dog on anyone's language, but any list that purports that Typescript is significantly less popular than Scheme, Haskell, Alice, Lisp, COBOL, Ada, Logo, and a few dozen other languages you probably haven't ever heard of, is a complete waste of time.

I don't even use Typescript and even I know that especially with Angular 2 Typescript is gaining a lot of popularity and it was already doing well before they picked it too. I mean it isn't even on their list in the top 100. How is that possible?

It says that VB.net is more popular than Javascript too. Like that is even possible.

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#24

Post by andrewbinstock »

xiphias wrote: post #10
xiphias wrote: post #2

It doesn't show how much Rust inproved in usage compared to last year.

Why the downvote? Rust is on 41th place on the linked TIOBE index and I would expect it to be growing faster than Dart from the HN articles that were popular last year. Dart was compared to last year on the index, but Rust wasn't, so I don't think saying that Dart was the second fastest growing language is fair.

At HN, we're a very small community in a very large profession. Viewing what that larger profession is doing based principally on what you see here is likely to be misleading.

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#25

Post by danvasquez29 »

sushisource wrote: post #3

And yet, I very very rarely hear anyone talking about it? I assume it's pushed heavily internally at Google, but anecdotally it seems nigh-unused outside of Google. Am I totally off?

I honestly thought the project was either dead or terminal. I tried to adopt it for a pet project 3 years ago and never followed through, and I haven't heard much about it since.

Given that what I liked about it most was types and web components, which are pretty robust now with well established tools (Typescript and React), I wonder what's the real allure in Dart as opposed to those seemingly more popular options?

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#26

Post by dunkelheit »

xiphias wrote: post #18
steveklabnik wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It did say that, "Rust kept its top 50 position (from 47 to 41)." But also, Rust and Dart are very different languages, so bringing Rust up here feels very offtopic.

Thanks, I didn't see it..I thought it's interesting because every few days there's a new library ported to Rust shown on HN, which gave the impression to me that it's the fastest growing language.

Rust people are very good at marketing and community building and you have experienced it yourself. Which is a great thing, it would be sad for such a promising language to fail because "people just didn't get it".

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#27

Post by devsquid »

ceronman wrote: post #21

You don't always have to jump to the hype train! Yes, you don't hear much about Dart here on HN, but the project is far from dead. The most important thing is that Dart works, it's stable and production ready and it's being used in production not only by Google but also by other companies. Dart is a very refreshing change for front-end development. No fatigue! Great tooling, nice language without surprises and option…

The one issue I had with Dart, was typing was optional. But at the last DartCon they announced they are creating a strong typed mode, which forces typing and type correctness and it generates higher preforming code. Yay!

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#28

Post by mst »

isoos wrote: post #12
unknownsavage wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is my impression too. This is the first mention of it I think I've heard in the last year, and I'm in the web development scene. Meanwhile I seemingly can't get away from rust mentions, which seems to have people really excited.

Apparently there is at least one reddit moderator that doesn't like Dart and actively bans users when they try to post legitimate articles in webdev forums: https://plus.google.com/+MontyRasmussen/posts/UWyjF5S14Uo I'm not saying that this is general to moderators, but some people try to deny it exists or is relevant (probably because they have invested in other toolchains), and if your filter-bubble is controlled by…

Equally possible: the user was posting so many dart articles it was crowding out higher quality non dart stuff from the 'new' queue.

Assuming the moderation action was due to "not liking dart" when we've nothing except the complaining of the newly-banned to substantiate it doesn't strike me as particularly fair.

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#29

Post by pseudosavant »

steveklabnik wrote: post #20
xiphias wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I didn't see it..I thought it's interesting because every few days there's a new library ported to Rust shown on HN, which gave the impression to me that it's the fastest growing language.

Well, TIOBE's rankings only prove what TIOBE's rankings say. You should examine their methodology and take it for whatever you think it's worth. It does a very specific kind of thing.

Here is their methodology FWIW: http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-defin...

I don't know what they are really trying to measure but it seems pretty useless.

Re: Dart in 2016: Fastest growing language at Google, 2nd fastest in TIOBE

#30

Post by shadowmint »

isoos wrote: post #12
unknownsavage wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is my impression too. This is the first mention of it I think I've heard in the last year, and I'm in the web development scene. Meanwhile I seemingly can't get away from rust mentions, which seems to have people really excited.

Apparently there is at least one reddit moderator that doesn't like Dart and actively bans users when they try to post legitimate articles in webdev forums: https://plus.google.com/+MontyRasmussen/posts/UWyjF5S14Uo I'm not saying that this is general to moderators, but some people try to deny it exists or is relevant (probably because they have invested in other toolchains), and if your filter-bubble is controlled by…

I think that's a bit conspiratoralist.

If dart was popular you'd see the flag being flown in multiple places; you dont. Its not. Even the /r/dart subreddit is dead.

It's not because of some conspiracy to bury dart news; people just don't care.

Community is important.

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