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When You Are Depressed, Make Something

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Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#261

Post by wu-ikkyu »

komali2 wrote: post #117
sixo wrote: post #80

When you are depressed, see if there's a serious problem in your life that is causing you to be depressed and devote as much time and energy as you can muster towards exploring solutions to that problem, even if they entail dramatic life-changing decisions, because that's the kind of problem we're dealing with here. Examples of such problems: you hate your graduate program. You have no friends in your city and no ide…

I completely disagree with you. I believe you are describing solutions to problems that can make someone sad or frustrated, which is a fine thing. I'm all about being real about your life situation and doing something about it. However, depression is a disease independent of external factors. I had it when I had arguably one of the coolest jobs in my life up until that point. I treated it with medication, got out of…

>However, depression is a disease independent of external factors.

Citation needed. The popular theory of depression being caused purely by a "chemical imbalance" independent of all other factors remains unproven, though it does make for a good and simple advertising ploy for big pharma in that it makes their consumers believe the only way to happiness is through their patented drugs.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#263

Post by strken »

komali2 wrote: post #117
sixo wrote: post #80

When you are depressed, see if there's a serious problem in your life that is causing you to be depressed and devote as much time and energy as you can muster towards exploring solutions to that problem, even if they entail dramatic life-changing decisions, because that's the kind of problem we're dealing with here. Examples of such problems: you hate your graduate program. You have no friends in your city and no ide…

I completely disagree with you. I believe you are describing solutions to problems that can make someone sad or frustrated, which is a fine thing. I'm all about being real about your life situation and doing something about it. However, depression is a disease independent of external factors. I had it when I had arguably one of the coolest jobs in my life up until that point. I treated it with medication, got out of…

A relative of mine has been battling depression for decades. After this person retired, they had a noticeable improvement in mood and energy within months, and around two years later had started a new exercise regime, begun doing low-paying but enjoyable work again for the sheer joy of it, gotten involved in local government, and quit medication with the help of their doctor.

It's not clear what "independent of external factors" really means, but in this case quitting the job seems to have worked. It wasn't that the job was bad in the sense of prestige, but rather that the job was a massive stressor in physical and emotional ways.

Now, everyone is an individual, but I'd hate to see someone else spend decades fighting depression without access to every weapon they can use.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#264

Post by yellowapple »

Alex3917 wrote: post #250
yellowapple wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your Google query: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/news/severe-depression-linke... "The Duke team concluded that depression, therefore, is more likely to contribute to inflammation in the body as opposed to arising as a consequence of inflammation."

The Duke research is interesting. But saying that because they didn't find a pathway that inflammation is unlikely to cause depression doesn't really make any sense, given that major triggers for depression are surgery, infection, autoimmune diseases, etc. I don't think anyone is disputing that depression also causes inflammation, but the idea that the causality only goes one way just seems very counter to everything…

The point is that there's no clear causation in either direction, and certainly not in even a significant minority of cases (let alone all or even a majority). We just don't know nearly enough about how the brain works to be able to chalk up something as complex as major depressive disorder to "your brain's inflamed; take some Aleve".

In fact, the DSM definition of major depressive disorder/episode (or at least this summary thereof (I unfortunately don't have a copy of any DSM version on hand): http://www.mental-health-today.com/dep/dsm.htm ) explicitly excludes cases where the symptoms are caused by some other physical case:

"Note: Do note include symptoms that are clearly due to a general medical condition, or mood-incongruent delusions or hallucinations."

I would think brain inflammation would count as a "general medical condition" in this context, though whether or not "clearly" is applicable is admittedly very unlikely. Regardless, the DSM seems to maintain a distinction between "depression symptoms caused by some other disorder, whether psychological or physical" v. "only exhibiting symptoms of one or more major depressive episode(s)". In the former case, yeah, totally work on fixing that inflammation with lifestyle changes or whatever. In the latter case, it ain't really that simple.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#265

Post by eivarv »

cpncrunch wrote: post #259
eivarv wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paper you linked to doesn't really show that "chronic stress causes depression", though. The key sentence in the abstract, I think, is this: Here we provide an overview of the evidence that chronic stress, which can precipitate or exacerbate depression, disrupts neuroplasticity, while antidepressant treatment produces opposing effects and can enhance neuroplasticity. The paper states that stress "contribute[s] to…

Agreed. I should have said chronic stress can cause depression.

"Chronic stress can trigger the onset of depression in those predisposed", I would say.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#267

Post by imgabe »

jimbokun wrote: post #145
imgabe wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem with trying to create something is once you begin to work hard at it, you realize that you're not very good and others have done it far better than you. But the only way to get very good and end up being one of those "others" who make the best things is to push past this point and keep making things anyway. Of course you're not the best in the world at something when you first start doing it. Nobody was.…

The problem is, everyone who devoted their entire life at something, worked with insane intensity, and devoted themselves wholly to it, is not the best in the world either, except one.

Being "the best in the world" is not necessary. By definition, there can only be one "best in the world" at any given endeavor, so most people will probably never reach that level at anything. There's much enjoyment and satisfaction to be had in doing things for their own sake rather than comparing yourself to others.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#268

Post by throwaway122916 »

komali2 wrote: post #117
sixo wrote: post #80

When you are depressed, see if there's a serious problem in your life that is causing you to be depressed and devote as much time and energy as you can muster towards exploring solutions to that problem, even if they entail dramatic life-changing decisions, because that's the kind of problem we're dealing with here. Examples of such problems: you hate your graduate program. You have no friends in your city and no ide…

I completely disagree with you. I believe you are describing solutions to problems that can make someone sad or frustrated, which is a fine thing. I'm all about being real about your life situation and doing something about it. However, depression is a disease independent of external factors. I had it when I had arguably one of the coolest jobs in my life up until that point. I treated it with medication, got out of…

I had depression from doing poorly in graduate school.

I felt inadequate and useless. You can call it temporary sadness, but I constantly contemplated suicide and nothing helped.

No matter how much I studied, I still didn't get new concepts as quickly as others and needed to study all the time which sometimes wasn't enough. Once I failed the qualifying exams, I quit and got a software engineering job where I'm doing really well and have plenty of money.

Now I'm really happy and never have such thoughts, so for me it was a matter of fixing a condition where I kept failing.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#269

Post by notyourloops »

TillE wrote: post #174
sixo wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry. I tried to be careful to say 'see if it's this' - I think people who have spent time depressed either completely agree with what I've said, or completely disagree. Probably there's two distinct things we're calling depression.

> Probably there's two distinct things we're calling depression. If you haven't been formally diagnosed, please for the love of god stop talking about "depression". You have no idea what it actually is.

It takes less than 15min to be formally diagnosed with depression and prescribed SSRIs in the US.

If you're bored you can watch the commercials on TV to learn that it's a chemical imbalance, and then repeat that fact every time a discussion about depression surfaces.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#270

Post by hathawsh »

EGreg wrote: post #245
hathawsh wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Most mainstream Judaeo-Christian postulates the immortality of the soul. But it seems to come up against mainstream history and science." Does it? Science does not answer questions that defy empirical inquiry. I have been told that we are spirits first and that we are having a temporary in-body experience. We don't currently remember our time before because this period of our eternal existence is a special test. It'…

I mean like for example the archaeology and genetic tracing of native americans building cities 5000 years ago, Egyptian pyramids built 4500 years ago, vs the story that everything on earth got wiped out by a giant flood 4100 years ago. They can't both be true. Similarly if the Exodus happened Egypt would have been devastated and overrun by Hittites etc. Or Herod's killing of all the children. Or the mass resurrectio…

If this life is a classroom, as I have been told, then there are teachers and test administrators. The administrators withhold certain evidence of the past in order to help us focus on more important things. They want to help us grow in faith, charity, and other values, not just analytical ability.

People are not perfect and prophets are people. I know of a prophet who said Jesus was born in Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem, not Jerusalem. Does that invalidate that prophet? No, he was addressing a people who didn't know the eastern lands very well and he was simplifying. Context is everything, even though we don't always know the full context.

If I were sure about what to believe, it wouldn't be belief anymore; it would be knowledge. If I only acted on things I am certain about, I would do almost nothing, since there is very little I am absolutely certain about. Life became more fulfilling and interesting when I learned to act on not only things I know, but also things I believe. Acting on belief leads to growth and ever increasing certainty that I am making choices that benefit me and my family.

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