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When You Are Depressed, Make Something

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Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#231

Post by astrange »

pc86 wrote: post #171
curun1r wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of thinking that has, in the past, led me to being depressed. It promotes an unhealthy fixation with the future that sends me into a nihilistic, self-perpetuating spiral of inaction. My answer has been something closer to Buddhist thinking than western religions. It's an intense effort to focus on the current moment. The past is done and cannot be changed. The future will happen, but it's largely bey…

Depression is a chemical or structural issue in the brain. Having existential thoughts did not change the structure of your brain or alter its chemistry. Suggesting you can "lead yourself" to depression by simply thinking is just as wrong as suggesting those with real depression can just "snap out of it."

> Having existential thoughts did not change the structure of your brain or alter its chemistry.

This seems like a really strong statement that can't possibly be absolutely true. Isn't there some literature on this?

I remember seeing some "self care twitter" posts with lists of things that "don't cure depression" (thinking happy thoughts, sunshine, Vitamin D) but obviously some of those do send it into remission in many people. Isn't that enough?

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#232

Post by ZeroFries »

tyree731 wrote: post #205
ZeroFries wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- This is advice for sadness, not depression. This is the opening quote in the article: "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." That just means you cannot identify the reason you're feeling depressed. If everything was going well (including your own health), you would not be depressed.

I understand what you are saying sounds reasonable as a person who doesn't have depression, but it is not correct. I mean, unless you're defining "going well" to include "not having depression", at which point I agree, but then what are we even discussing? This is a good starting point for the medical definition of depression ( https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/depression/index.shtm... ). Note the variety of tre…

I include physical health in "going well". You clearly do too, hence "chemical imbalances in their brain". I think the problem is, we're trying to parse the world into discrete categories (this is a disease, this is not, this is an external factor, this is not), when the world is not really that easily parsable. All abstractions leak eventually.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#234

Post by Alex3917 »

ajkjk wrote: post #222
Alex3917 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I haven't the slightest idea where you're getting the "brain inflammation" thing from http://lmgtfy.com/?q=inflammation+depression

You shouldn't post this way on this site. You're claiming matter-of-factly that brain inflammation causes depression. Well, I (we) don't believe you, because that's a far from widely accepted theory. Your condescending google links don't help.

> Your condescending google links don't help

Which I posted in response to getting blatantly gaslighted.

I don't care if you disagree with me, but pretending you don't know how to use Google to try to discredit someone is a lame debating technique.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#235

Post by atomical »

jackpirate wrote: post #195
ZeroFries wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- However, depression is a disease independent of external factors. What? No disease is independent of external factors. You even list a bunch of things which affect it. Depression is a pattern, subject to countless factors. I think what you mean to say is, there isn't a single cause of depression, and it can manifest when many of the factors affecting it seem to be "pretty good", and it can not manifest when those f…

>What? No disease is independent of external factors. This statement is true only in the narrowest sense and is actively harmful to people with mental health issues. Let's compare depression and cancer to see why. It is common to say something like "cancer is independent of external factors" to mean that anyone can get cancer. It doesn't matter how healthy of a lifestyle you live. Due to random chance, the guy who re…

Robert Sapolsky compares depression to cancer in another way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#236

Post by nbardy »

magic_beans wrote: post #105
empath75 wrote: post #15

As someone who has periodic depressive episodes, if you're capable of leaving the house to go to a DJ class, you're probably already over the worst of it. "Just go do x" sort of has a "Get off the couch" pre-requisite that needs to be satisfied.

There are days I can't even leave my bedroom.

Try meditating. My favorite way to meditate is outside sitting up, but on the days were I struggle to even get of bed I'll start meditating right there and try and work my way to the floor and then sitting up. It's not about doing it right, well, in certain positions or any. Start trying to bring your attention to your breath until you feel like you can work your way out of bed to the floor and then upright.

I've also found bike riding can be modified in a similar way. Throw on a hoodie even if its hot out. This allows you to put your head down and your hood up and generally ignore the world. Even when its hot out, its normal enough to wear a hoodie to work up a sweat". Bike riding also works at low enough speeds you can do it in a very apathetic manner(I find it easier than walking.) You don't have to work hard, just getting a little motion starts blood-flow and can provide a small lift. For me its about finding the easiest, simplest, way to provide some sort of lift to start the day and then hopefully you can snowball it.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#237

Post by nbardy »

magic_beans wrote: post #105
empath75 wrote: post #15

As someone who has periodic depressive episodes, if you're capable of leaving the house to go to a DJ class, you're probably already over the worst of it. "Just go do x" sort of has a "Get off the couch" pre-requisite that needs to be satisfied.

There are days I can't even leave my bedroom.

Try meditating. My favorite way to meditate is outside sitting up, but on the days were I struggle to even get of bed I'll start meditating right there and try and work my way to the floor and then sitting up. It's not about doing it right, well, in certain positions or any. Start trying to bring your attention to your breath until you feel like you can work your way out of bed to the floor and then upright.

I've also found bike riding can be modified in a similar way. Throw on a hoodie even if its hot out. This allows you to put your head down and your hood up and generally ignore the world. Even when its hot out, its normal enough to wear a hoodie to work up a sweat". Bike riding also works at low enough speeds you can do it in a very apathetic manner(I find it easier than walking.) You don't have to work hard, just getting a little motion starts blood-flow and can provide a small lift. For me its about finding the easiest, simplest, way to provide some sort of lift to start the day and then hopefully you can snowball it.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#238

Post by ZeroFries »

iak8god wrote: post #201
ZeroFries wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- This is advice for sadness, not depression. This is the opening quote in the article: "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." That just means you cannot identify the reason you're feeling depressed. If everything was going well (including your own health), you would not be depressed.

> If everything was going well (including your own health), you would not be depressed. This is tautological, and hence true, but an uninteresting point. Just pretend it says "... Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well except of course for the disorder in your brain ."

No, I'm saying depression is when you feel down but cannot account for the cause.

- Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well except of course for the disorder in your brain."

I'm saying this is not a possible situation. The disorder is a result of things not going well, including your own physical health.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#239

Post by btown »

tetraodonpuffer wrote: post #48
paulpauper wrote: post #14

The problem with trying to create something is once you begin to work hard at it, you realize that you're not very good and others have done it far better than you. I have notice this a lot with math.I will work on a problem and then a Google search later reveals that the problem is not only completely solved but in a way that is far better than I could have ever conceived. Another problem is when you run out of idea…

I think the implication is that you should try to create something away from the internet , note how the poster goes to a class and creates a beat and is getting positive reinforcement from people at the class If he had created a beat on his own, posted it on soundcloud/youtube and posted, say, on reddit, he would've likely gotten trolled or put down or compared to any number of amazing beatmakers and it would have a…

I think the internet's "Michelangelo on your left" effect is more subtle, but equally dangerous.

Say you do truly believe that you can stand out in whatever crowd it is. Certainly that's true of a learners' meetup in person, but that could be an online community, in which you find a niche or a community with a greater demand for creative work than supply. (Soundcloud is not such a place, but consider fandoms as an example.) You believe that you could get positive reinforcement of the value of your work from making something, be it a table or a beat. You find and engage with that community. Awesome, that's the first step!

The problem that then arises is that doing things at the level of quality that folks come to expect from this new world of democratized creation (and you're a perfectionist at some fundamental level, of course, who browses the Internet and will see exemplars of whatever craft you want to pursue)... is that even if you believe you can get to their level, you need to put the time in to practice your craft. Like "the free time of a teenager" levels of time (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori ). And if you're already in a place where you feel guilty for misallocating the hours of every day of every week of every month for a very long time... then the clarion call of huddling in bed, or reading a website, or playing a video game with instant gratification, can quickly drown out the impulse to create. A comfortably unsatisfying safety blanket from which it is very hard to escape.

There's a much lower barrier to entry to writing HN comments, that's for sure...

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#240

Post by yellowapple »

kkielhofner wrote: post #207
yellowapple wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There's no mention of that in the DSM or the ICD." Maybe not in those words, but the DSM does appear to distinguish between a depressive episode and e.g. bereavement: http://www.mental-health-today.com/dep/dsm.htm (I don't think this is the actual text, but it's the best I can find without a copy of the DSM-IV-TR on hand). IANAPsychologist, but as an ordinary person, the article's distinction between sadness and dep…

Much has been written about the removal of the "bereavement exclusion" from the DSM 5.

Good to know. The vast majority of what little knowledge I have of psychology is based around the DSM-IV, so that's where I tend to stick.

Do the other factors in that particular condition still apply? Namely, "the symptoms persist for longer than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation, psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation."?

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