When You Are Depressed, Make Something • Hacker News Board

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#201

Post by iak8god » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:18 PM UTC

ZeroFries wrote: post #183

ejfox wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is advice for sadness, not depression. This is the opening quote in the article: "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." Depression may be affected by real life problems but it is more life-enveloping than that. I've been the most depressed at times in my life when things were going objectively great. The people who asked…

- This is advice for sadness, not depression. This is the opening quote in the article: "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." That just means you cannot identify the reason you're feeling depressed. If everything was going well (including your own health), you would not be depressed.

> If everything was going well (including your own health), you would not be depressed.

This is tautological, and hence true, but an uninteresting point. Just pretend it says "... Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well except of course for the disorder in your brain."

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#202

Post by ars » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:20 PM UTC

dvt wrote: post #182

potatototo wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people who asked "what's making you sad?" or tried to "fix" my "problems" were the least helpful. As someone who lives with someone depressed, I find myself guilty of doing this and I don't know any other way to be present for that person. What kind of approaches have you found helpful?

Depression is a sort of severe introspection where your thoughts (often negative) take over. The solution tends to be getting your mind off things. Instead of asking "why sad," try to simply do things with the person that will get their mind off their own negative feedback loop. This is easier said than done, and if the depression is lasting for weeks or months, I suggest seeing a mental care professional.

I agree. The best way to deal with true depressions (which is not caused by circumstance) is to simply do things.

Anything. (But not passive things like watch something, or read something.)

Make something, drive, hike, volunteer, clean, garden. Whatever.

You can help them by thinking of what activity they often do, and doing it with them. But remember to think of what they do, not what you do.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#203

Post by cgriswald » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:20 PM UTC

ZeroFries wrote: post #183

ejfox wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is advice for sadness, not depression. This is the opening quote in the article: "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." Depression may be affected by real life problems but it is more life-enveloping than that. I've been the most depressed at times in my life when things were going objectively great. The people who asked…

- This is advice for sadness, not depression. This is the opening quote in the article: "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." That just means you cannot identify the reason you're feeling depressed. If everything was going well (including your own health), you would not be depressed.

Sometimes the reason you are feeling depressed has nothing to do with how things are going. My depression was caused by things that had happened in the past and that I didn't spend any time consciously thinking about. Dealing with that stuff took some work, but once I did, my depression lifted and hasn't returned.

Depression means, even if things are going well, you can't feel good about it.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#204

Post by elihu » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:21 PM UTC

I have a theory about why some people create art.

When you're happy and things are going well, there's no need for any external purpose for your life because living and experiencing it are their own purpose.

When things are going badly and you aren't happy, then you tend to start looking for ways to justify your existence, like maybe your life kind of sucks but it still has some higher-level meaning because you can still make something beautiful or that makes other people's lives better. I think a lot of good art came about in this way, and I think it's usually good for the creator of the art as well as the rest of us who are enjoying the things they created.

Helping people directly rather than through art is another thing that a person might do, but that's harder, especially when you're going through hard times yourself.

Of course it is quite possible to be prevented from creating art by depression, in which case other ways of dealing with it (such as seeking professional help) may be in order.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#205

Post by tyree731 » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:22 PM UTC

ZeroFries wrote: post #183

ejfox wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is advice for sadness, not depression. This is the opening quote in the article: "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." Depression may be affected by real life problems but it is more life-enveloping than that. I've been the most depressed at times in my life when things were going objectively great. The people who asked…

- This is advice for sadness, not depression. This is the opening quote in the article: "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." That just means you cannot identify the reason you're feeling depressed. If everything was going well (including your own health), you would not be depressed.

I understand what you are saying sounds reasonable as a person who doesn't have depression, but it is not correct. I mean, unless you're defining "going well" to include "not having depression", at which point I agree, but then what are we even discussing?

This is a good starting point for the medical definition of depression (https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/depression/index.shtm...). Note the variety of treatments proposed that don't involve psychotherapy. These treatments aren't people taking the easy way out, these treatments are for people treating chemical imbalances in their brain that make it difficult for them to function in their daily lives.

For a more lighthearted discussion of depression, the new podcast "The Hilarious World of Depression" features interviews with comedians who suffer from depression, and how they've struggled with and managed from the disease.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#206

Post by a_brawling_boo » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:22 PM UTC

I feel like what happened to the author epitomizes the experience of a generation that graduated in the year or two right before the crash of 2008. The first round of layoffs obviously disproportionately effected people that were just starting off their careers at that time (of course other groups were disproportionately hit hard as well). It happened to me being about a year into my career as I was still feeling my way around. It happened to many of my friends as well, and was especially hard on the group of folks that didn’t have the fortune to have gone into the IT field. And once you are out of work for a year or two when the recovery started happening, the resume’s of people fresh out of college look more attractive than the out of work ‘lazy millennial’ which only compounded the problem. Having facebook made it easier to kind of see what was going on with the larger crowd of acquaintances that I maybe would not have explicitly kept track of and though its hard to compare my experience against other cohorts I feel like depression and alcoholism are more of a problem for the group I am describing than others.

In my case I feel lucky for the experience, I was only out of work for a few months and learned that you should never trust the company you are working for beyond the next paycheck. Never work on weekends with the promises you will be ‘paid back’ etc. You are ultimately working for yourself regardless if you are salaried or contract.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#207

Post by kkielhofner » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:23 PM UTC

yellowapple wrote: post #157

jdietrich wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is advice for sadness, not depression. This is the opening quote in the article: "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." There's no mention of that in the DSM or the ICD. People with miserable lives can still be depressed; people can have miserable lives without recognising that their lives are miserable. There is no suc…

"There's no mention of that in the DSM or the ICD." Maybe not in those words, but the DSM does appear to distinguish between a depressive episode and e.g. bereavement: http://www.mental-health-today.com/dep/dsm.htm (I don't think this is the actual text, but it's the best I can find without a copy of the DSM-IV-TR on hand). IANAPsychologist, but as an ordinary person, the article's distinction between sadness and dep…

Much has been written about the removal of the "bereavement exclusion" from the DSM 5.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#208

Post by benevol » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:24 PM UTC

jes5199 wrote: post #187

benevol wrote: post #78

(Especially!) if your government doesn't give you access to a therapist or if you don't want to suffer side-effects due to anti-depressants, then do : 1. Mindful meditation [free] -> Daily practice (30+ minutes) John Kabat-Zinn [0] masters the link between science and meditation and has published very valuable books (including guided/audio meditation exercises) [1]. There are a couple of scientific studies which prov…

There is good reason to be cautious with meditation while depressed. Meditation helps people get some distance from their emotional reactions - but depressed people are often already _unhealthily_ dissociated from their emotional state, and mediation may exacerbate that rather than repair it. I'm with you on the LSD thing, though.

True.

Meditation becomes rather unrealistic once your depression is past the "moderate" level and has become "clinic" (strong), in which case either anti-depressants (mostly with side-effects) or a well researched and full-blown LSD experience can "jumpstart" your brain again (and therewith enable you to start practicing meditation which then helps you avoid falling back into strong depression).

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#209

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:24 PM UTC

ZeroFries wrote: post #180

komali2 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely disagree with you. I believe you are describing solutions to problems that can make someone sad or frustrated, which is a fine thing. I'm all about being real about your life situation and doing something about it. However, depression is a disease independent of external factors. I had it when I had arguably one of the coolest jobs in my life up until that point. I treated it with medication, got out of…

- However, depression is a disease independent of external factors. What? No disease is independent of external factors. You even list a bunch of things which affect it. Depression is a pattern, subject to countless factors. I think what you mean to say is, there isn't a single cause of depression, and it can manifest when many of the factors affecting it seem to be "pretty good", and it can not manifest when those f…

If you think of depression as a self-sustaining feedback loop in your mind, it may very well persist regardless of external factors; in such situation it sounds reasonable to focus on killing off the factors that sustain the feedback loop, with the expectation that once gone, it won't restart again (at least not any time soon).

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#210

Post by brainthrowaway » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:24 PM UTC

ZeroFries wrote: post #180

komali2 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely disagree with you. I believe you are describing solutions to problems that can make someone sad or frustrated, which is a fine thing. I'm all about being real about your life situation and doing something about it. However, depression is a disease independent of external factors. I had it when I had arguably one of the coolest jobs in my life up until that point. I treated it with medication, got out of…

- However, depression is a disease independent of external factors. What? No disease is independent of external factors. You even list a bunch of things which affect it. Depression is a pattern, subject to countless factors. I think what you mean to say is, there isn't a single cause of depression, and it can manifest when many of the factors affecting it seem to be "pretty good", and it can not manifest when those f…

Brain damage, such as from a concussion, can result in depression along with other psychological problems. Yeah, the concussion is an external factor in the sense that something hit your head, but there's not a whole lot you can do about fixing that factor yourself.