Let’s Talk About Self-Driving Cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Let’s Talk About Self-Driving Cars

#131

Post by agumonkey » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 6:20 PM UTC

Tiktaalik wrote: post #125

No mention of pedestrians, cyclists, or how cars (self driving or otherwise) affect the urban realm. So much of the self driving discussion seems to be wholly about the automobile technology in a bubble, with near zero thought put into the impacts on people, cities and society. The fact that the idea of signal less intersections, a concept that ignores the existence of pedestrians and cyclists entirely, is even a poi…

It's not zero. Lots of SDV talks mentioned impact of society altogether. Less crowded roads since cars could drive outside of rush hours. Different parking spot locations.

Re: Let’s Talk About Self-Driving Cars

#132

Post by funkymike » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 6:20 PM UTC

schintan wrote: post #106

yoz-y wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will never be a non-zero chance of getting into accident. But if the car is a safer driver than you then it is a net win.

Factually that may be true, but its a matter of belief. When I drive, I am 100% confident that I will not get into an accident. A self driving car with <100% safety is a net loss in my mind.

Beliefs like this are what get people killed. People think they can drive safely far above the speed limit. People think they can drive safely in adverse conditions at unsafe speeds. They are wrong and get themselves and others maimed and killed every day. Their complete confidence doesn't save them, but is the root of the problem.

Re: Let’s Talk About Self-Driving Cars

#133

Post by Fricken » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 6:21 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #122

Fricken wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NHTSA originally designated a 0-4 system for classifying Autonomous vehicles. Then the SAE (engineers love adding features) added Level 5. When the NHTSA adopted the SAE system, they reworded the description of Level 5 to what you've quoted. And seriously, it's a meaningless designation. To have a driverless car that perform as well as an expert human driver in all conditions will take decades, it may require som…

I agree and, yet, you need something at least very close to that before you can have cars without anybody in them shuttling around to pick up people or deliver a pizza. (Which is why anyone who thinks they're going to be able to hail a roboUber in Manhattan within a decade is... optimistic.) I suppose you can construct really elaborate corner cases that you might give a car a pass on. And maybe there are ways to make…

It'll be a while before the human is completely out of the loop, but Waymo has filed a patent for 'remote assistance in low confidence situations', and many of the companies pursuing robotaxis have signalled similar initiatives.

Re: Let’s Talk About Self-Driving Cars

#134

Post by nostrademons » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 6:26 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #131

Tiktaalik wrote: post #125

No mention of pedestrians, cyclists, or how cars (self driving or otherwise) affect the urban realm. So much of the self driving discussion seems to be wholly about the automobile technology in a bubble, with near zero thought put into the impacts on people, cities and society. The fact that the idea of signal less intersections, a concept that ignores the existence of pedestrians and cyclists entirely, is even a poi…

It's not zero. Lots of SDV talks mentioned impact of society altogether. Less crowded roads since cars could drive outside of rush hours. Different parking spot locations.

Quite possibly no parking spot locations. A self-driving car service would drop off one passenger and then immediately move to pick up the next passenger. I suppose there'd still be parking lots to handle shifts in aggregate demand over the day, but they'd be well outside the city, in some barren desert land or garage.

Re: Let’s Talk About Self-Driving Cars

#135

Post by Svip » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 6:26 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #131

Tiktaalik wrote: post #125

No mention of pedestrians, cyclists, or how cars (self driving or otherwise) affect the urban realm. So much of the self driving discussion seems to be wholly about the automobile technology in a bubble, with near zero thought put into the impacts on people, cities and society. The fact that the idea of signal less intersections, a concept that ignores the existence of pedestrians and cyclists entirely, is even a poi…

It's not zero. Lots of SDV talks mentioned impact of society altogether. Less crowded roads since cars could drive outside of rush hours. Different parking spot locations.

Wouldn't people still have to get to work during rush hours? I contend that it would be a smoother experience, but would it really be significantly less cars?

Re: Let’s Talk About Self-Driving Cars

#136

Post by hx87 » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 6:27 PM UTC

cr0sh wrote: post #74

nickez wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars == freedom That is a very American statement. For me it is freedom not to have a car.

While I understand this intellectually (that is, I know that this is an American-centric thing, and that other societies in the world have a different view), I am curious how this view would be justified? One could "reducto-ad-absurdum" the statement, and say "To be bedridden and unable to walk is to be free!" - which would obviously be a very absurd statement to make. In America, part of the reason we feel this way…

My body doesn't take much resources and effort to maintain, and in any case there is no alternative. My car on the other hand, consumes a significant portion of my resources, which constrains my freedom to spend its portion of my income on other things, or to not work for it altogether.

> While I understand this intellectually (that is, I know that this is an American-centric thing, and that other societies in the world have a different view), I am curious how this view would be justified?

How would you justify views, if not intellectually?

Re: Let’s Talk About Self-Driving Cars

#137

Post by protomok » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 6:29 PM UTC

"Every city has different driving culture, so how will autonomous cars treat these unique conditions. What’s safe in Bangalore may cause a traffic collapse in Boston, etc."

This will be a really interesting problem to solve. The ability to turn on a red light for example will require a city specific profile and will change over time - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red

Re: Let’s Talk About Self-Driving Cars

#138

Post by maverick_iceman » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 6:31 PM UTC

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #43

valine wrote: post #35

I dislike the idea of transportation as a service. I would much rather own a self driving car and use it as a mobile office. Being able to get work done during my commute would be a major benefit. I imagine having a full size monitor with a nice keyboard and mouse that I would leave in the car. That simply wouldn't be possible with a service like Uber.

My wife and I visited Mendocino a couple of weeks ago. The natural beauty of it had us talking about the possibility of living there. The first obvious concern: Employment. It's a 3 hour drive to San Francisco. My first thought was autonomous electric vehicles and exactly your point. Charge the batteries with sunlight and let the car do the driving to the office in San Francisco and back while I'm pounding out code,…

Motion sickness?

Re: Let’s Talk About Self-Driving Cars

#139

Post by agumonkey » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 6:34 PM UTC

Svip wrote: post #135

agumonkey wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not zero. Lots of SDV talks mentioned impact of society altogether. Less crowded roads since cars could drive outside of rush hours. Different parking spot locations.

Wouldn't people still have to get to work during rush hours? I contend that it would be a smoother experience, but would it really be significantly less cars?

Car "could" go pick up kids, groceries at different times.

Re: Let’s Talk About Self-Driving Cars

#140

Post by maverick_iceman » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 6:34 PM UTC

losteverything wrote: post #34

francoisdevlin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you concerns? What should engineers in this space be considering?

It is all gut. No data. No logic. Cars == freedom. Freedom == control Freedom as in own Geographic control. When. Where and how we get places with that freedom. We control our freedom. Before furnaces we burned wood. Furnaces helped. We accepted them. But cars are different. An extension and expression of our freedom. Out health. Cars have been our best (& worst sometimes) friend as we used our freedoms. There is no…

I'm very much of a freedom loving libertarian but this comment comes across as incredibly foolish to me. One should have the freedom to choose self driving car or not. Personally, I can't wait to have one.