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When You Are Depressed, Make Something

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Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#111

Post by mack73 »

EGreg wrote: post #101
sixo wrote: post #80

When you are depressed, see if there's a serious problem in your life that is causing you to be depressed and devote as much time and energy as you can muster towards exploring solutions to that problem, even if they entail dramatic life-changing decisions, because that's the kind of problem we're dealing with here. Examples of such problems: you hate your graduate program. You have no friends in your city and no ide…

What do you guys think is the point of all our activities if people eventually die? Most mainstream Judaeo-Christian postulates the immortality of the soul. But it seems to come up against mainstream history and science. Hasn't anyone here felt these existential questions? Even if you accomplish so much, in the end you can't even answer basic questions about the meaning of it all. You can consile yourself with the id…

I mean, sure, for a religious person touching base with God or exploring existential questions might be fruitful but for a non-believer, focusing on these large questions while being in a depression is not your way out of it, because those questions are too grand. A quite healthy person might end up in a depression dwelling on unsolvable mysteries for too long.

If you find yourself in a depression, your thoughts constantly searching for answers to questions about the universe and why we are here, try to do something more akin to what the person in TFA tell about: create. Your real problem is certainly not that you don't have those answers, it's something else.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#112

Post by nicky0 »

sixo wrote: post #80

When you are depressed, see if there's a serious problem in your life that is causing you to be depressed and devote as much time and energy as you can muster towards exploring solutions to that problem, even if they entail dramatic life-changing decisions, because that's the kind of problem we're dealing with here. Examples of such problems: you hate your graduate program. You have no friends in your city and no ide…

This is probably the worst advice about depression I have ever read. "Spend time thinking about how to fix your problems" is about the last thing someone with depression needs to be told.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#114

Post by asciimo »

Bartweiss wrote: post #95
tetraodonpuffer wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every human has the same potential for amazing learning, the only difference between those seemingly geniuses with perfect answers that solve problems in a way you could never conceive, is they practiced more, and thought about it more. I completely disagree, and I think this attitude, which I find more prevalent in North America, is at the root of a lot of depression and feelings of lack of self worth. It's the sa…

There's a weird divide here. Some people find the innate ability mindset oppressive and saddening, and are greatly comforted by "you can do whatever you set yourself to!" Other people find growth mindset oppressive, and greatly prefer "you can't be the next Gauss, so stop feeling bad about his achievements!" None of which is a strictly relevant to what's true , of course. The answer there seems to be "lots of skill i…

I like this idea of a gift-effort balance. Everyone requires a different mix to shine. But effort seems more important, as I see hard-working "average" people excel more often than lazy geniuses.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#115

Post by stinkytaco »

alkonaut wrote: post #96
stinkytaco wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like a good example of the described problem, however. I could also attempt to make a table, and I will conclude that I have seen many better tables made, which could make me feel bad. The hard part is letting go of being the best, or even succeeding, in my opinion. It's cliche, but the attempt is what matters. If you run a marathon to win it, you will almost certainly be disappointed; but if you run it to b…

Pick a subject without much difficult craftsmanship or creativity. One where you can just execute. Grow carrots. You won't worry about there being larger or nicer looking carrots grown by others. I restore old bikes. It's easy mechanically, cheap, and projects are short enough to never be overwhelming (unlike e.g a car project). It's a nice analog change from computers.

Actually, I do garden and have a hobby car (which probably frustrates me more than it makes me happy).

But you've obviously never seen a gardening competition. People absolutely worry about growing bigger and nicer looking carrots.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#116

Post by OJFord »

taway_1212 wrote: post #84
sixo wrote: post #80

When you are depressed, see if there's a serious problem in your life that is causing you to be depressed and devote as much time and energy as you can muster towards exploring solutions to that problem, even if they entail dramatic life-changing decisions, because that's the kind of problem we're dealing with here. Examples of such problems: you hate your graduate program. You have no friends in your city and no ide…

A lot of these issues can stem from overthinking/staying within your own bauble of thoughts (for example, no job in a developed country can be described as "hell", so if one thinks that, he's clearly too sensitive or too inwardly focused). Making something can help in that it can make someone stop thinking those harmful thoughts.

> no job in a developed country can be described as "hell"

Telling a depressed person that they've really no right to be is, however true, certainly not going to help.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#117

Post by komali2 »

sixo wrote: post #80

When you are depressed, see if there's a serious problem in your life that is causing you to be depressed and devote as much time and energy as you can muster towards exploring solutions to that problem, even if they entail dramatic life-changing decisions, because that's the kind of problem we're dealing with here. Examples of such problems: you hate your graduate program. You have no friends in your city and no ide…

I completely disagree with you.

I believe you are describing solutions to problems that can make someone sad or frustrated, which is a fine thing. I'm all about being real about your life situation and doing something about it.

However, depression is a disease independent of external factors. I had it when I had arguably one of the coolest jobs in my life up until that point. I treated it with medication, got out of the slump, and applied techniques to stave it away.

Those techniques are what you called "short term solutions." I think of them as long-term preventative measures to stave off the chemical imbalance that can cause depression. Regular exercise keeps up your serotonin and endorphin levels, as well as helps you maintain a healthy body-image. Interacting with people, also increases serotonin and endorphin levels, and ensures you don't feel lonely. Engaging creatively keeps your brain active and, you guessed it, increases serotonin and endorphin levels, as well as distracts from the "why do I bother" feeling, aka, gives you a "reason."

One of the most important lessons I ever learned when I had a shit job. I kept thinking "if I just get a better job, then I'll be happy." Then I realized how much it would suck if my internal happiness depended totally upon externalities - who's to say a good job is the "best" job? If I adopt that mindset I'll always be chasing the carrot on the stick. The important thing is to do what is necessary to be happy no matter what, and then focus on the externalities (the "problems" you describe).

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#118

Post by throwaway729 »

Bartweiss wrote: post #95
tetraodonpuffer wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every human has the same potential for amazing learning, the only difference between those seemingly geniuses with perfect answers that solve problems in a way you could never conceive, is they practiced more, and thought about it more. I completely disagree, and I think this attitude, which I find more prevalent in North America, is at the root of a lot of depression and feelings of lack of self worth. It's the sa…

There's a weird divide here. Some people find the innate ability mindset oppressive and saddening, and are greatly comforted by "you can do whatever you set yourself to!" Other people find growth mindset oppressive, and greatly prefer "you can't be the next Gauss, so stop feeling bad about his achievements!" None of which is a strictly relevant to what's true , of course. The answer there seems to be "lots of skill i…

I used to prefer the growth mindset and now I agree with you.

I think what changed for me is that I got good enough to regularly interact with people at the "highest levels" of what I do. Teaching probably had some impact on me as well.

I still work hard and enjoy improving, but if I'm completely honest with myself, I'll never be as good as some of the people I regularly interact with. Their minds are gifts that no amount of hard work can compete against (especially because they're also incredibly productive... which in some sense is, I think, also a genetic gift. I need my 8 hours of sleep and can't consistently work more than 10 hour work weeks.).

Since having that realization, I've noticed that most people in my life who prefer the growth mindset happen to work in occupations where there isn't a lot of room for variation -- or where variation in productivity is almost completely explained by factors under your own control. E.g., factory work, truck driving, and the sort of healthcare occupations you can do straight out of high school. Or in one case, a software dev who puts in his 40 doing very standard C# LoB CRUD apps.

Figuring out that there's an essential difference between my environment and theirs was a huge relief -- it's not that I wasn't working hard enough (I definitely was), it's that the type of work I'm doing is much more sensitive to variation in natural ability.

Maybe ignorance is bliss when it comes to the growth mindset.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#119

Post by throwaway729 »

asciimo wrote: post #114
Bartweiss wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a weird divide here. Some people find the innate ability mindset oppressive and saddening, and are greatly comforted by "you can do whatever you set yourself to!" Other people find growth mindset oppressive, and greatly prefer "you can't be the next Gauss, so stop feeling bad about his achievements!" None of which is a strictly relevant to what's true , of course. The answer there seems to be "lots of skill i…

I like this idea of a gift-effort balance. Everyone requires a different mix to shine. But effort seems more important, as I see hard-working "average" people excel more often than lazy geniuses.

Yes.

But, I think the key realization is that whenever the incentives are strong enough, a lot of hard-working geniuses will be fighting for the prize. Hard-working geniuses are really hard to compete against, and if you don't realize that natural variation is a real thing, you can get discouraged pretty quickly.

Re: When You Are Depressed, Make Something

#120

Post by oldopsguy »

tetraodonpuffer wrote: post #48
paulpauper wrote: post #14

The problem with trying to create something is once you begin to work hard at it, you realize that you're not very good and others have done it far better than you. I have notice this a lot with math.I will work on a problem and then a Google search later reveals that the problem is not only completely solved but in a way that is far better than I could have ever conceived. Another problem is when you run out of idea…

I think the implication is that you should try to create something away from the internet , note how the poster goes to a class and creates a beat and is getting positive reinforcement from people at the class If he had created a beat on his own, posted it on soundcloud/youtube and posted, say, on reddit, he would've likely gotten trolled or put down or compared to any number of amazing beatmakers and it would have a…

Well said and as someone commented earlier about "building a table" I think there is some sense of accomplishment and utility you can get from that vs something in tech.
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