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The Swedish Kings of Cyberwar

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Re: The Swedish Kings of Cyberwar

#81

Post by matt4077 »

croon wrote: post #3

Interesting read for a variety of reasons. As a countryman of Sweden, I think it's sad that we've been playing lapdog throughout history. Germany during WW2, and now the US. The article refers to much less publicized occurances, but there's also lesser stories (but important signaling) like the piratebay court cases farce. Is Russia up next as our masters, when they want to secure their fiber pipeline? It's in cases…

I doubt that such cooperation is actually the result of (at least overt) pressure (and couldn't find anything in the article implying it). I think it may be the result of some more subtle mechanisms.

First among them is simply that there's nothing wrong with the data collection in the first place, and that the US/NSA is on your side. I'm rather uninformed about Swedish politics, but a generally positive view of the US is shared almost universally among the European elite. Many have studied in the US, binge-watched The West Wing, or simply see the positive role the US has played in Europe over the last 70 years. The only exceptions I can think of are France and some left-of-left-of-center parties.

Secondly, for someone working on or leading such efforts it's tremendously flattering to be noticed by the NSA. It may seem strange to think such basic emotions could influence policy, but I'm absolutely certain that there are people, from the actual programmers up to and including ministers, who love being invited to whatever the NSA version of WWDC is, and that they can influence policy.

Re: The Swedish Kings of Cyberwar

#83

Post by pnevmatico »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #53
oskarth wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another Swede, 100% agree. For another example, look into how Sweden treated Raoul Wallenberg who courageously saved 100 000 Jews in Budapest during WW2. I can highly recommend this book: https://www.amazon.com/Wallenberg-Marton/dp/B005X8V19S/ Sweden is great in lots of ways, but that attitude in combination with Sweden's often holier-than-thou attitude towards other countries is really hypocritical. PS. As an asi…

Some quick Googling says that Raoul Wallenberg died at the hands of the NKVD and that Sweden had nothing to do with it. What exactly do you think the Swedish government did to Raoul Wallenberg? Where can I find more information on that?

He is implying that the Swedish government should have tried harder to rescue Wallenberg out of the Soviet jail.

Re: The Swedish Kings of Cyberwar

#84

Post by lostlogin »

chinathrow wrote: post #41
lostlogin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The west hasnt invaded anyone or shot down any airliners though has it?

Well, not or on purpse, a few airlines has indeed been shut down over the time, including "by the west": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_inc... E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 "Iran Air Flight 655 was an Iran Air passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai. On 3 July 1988, the aircraft operating on this route was shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS…

I thought we were talking in the context of Russia V west at the moment and examples of aggression (which it's not hard to argue Russia is out of bounds). Your cited incident is truly atrocious and it sounds like the captain was a known tool in the navy too.

Re: The Swedish Kings of Cyberwar

#85

Post by tsukikage »

lostlogin wrote: post #34
moogly wrote: post #7

It's pretty disheartening to know that the Swedish press won't touch this with a 10-foot pole; they're busy digging/drumming up the "good ole" Russian Scare from the 60s/70s right now amidst the sabre-rattling coming, frankly, largely from the West.

The west hasnt invaded anyone or shot down any airliners though has it?

We've been invading random places in the middle east for decades. We're invading some right now.

Re: The Swedish Kings of Cyberwar

#87

Post by jacobush »

logfromblammo wrote: post #72
durandal1 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Switzerland spends half as much as Sweden on its annual military spending as percentage of GDP (also less in absolute terms), and they can credibly stay out of NATO, so why couldn't Sweden? Geographics? I don't buy it. I think you should go look at that map again and think about the strategic value of Sweden vs Switzerland.

There are five other countries on the Baltic Sea for whom that is their only ocean access, Russia's northern ports may not be open year round, and their Black Sea ports are behind the straits of Bosporus, Dardanelles, and Gibraltar. Sweden and Turkey can both make naval operations more difficult and expensive for Russia, particularly those operations it might prefer to keep secret. Switzerland isn't exactly a place y…

Yep. Also Sweden has that huge stationary aircraft carrier in the middle of the Baltic Sea. (I am referring to of course, the island of Gotland.)

Re: The Swedish Kings of Cyberwar

#88

Post by Sami_Lehtinen »

I guess the new C-Lion1 cable is the reason why Finland is now changing legalization to allow monitoring, intelligence, snooping, espionage and offensive action. Basically looking to have NSA like capabilities legally and hack anyone anywhere, just as US does.

Re: The Swedish Kings of Cyberwar

#89

Post by PerfectDlite »

ggame wrote: post #59
berntb wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A revolution is scary, the dice are thrown in the air and you have no clue how they fall. It didn't go well in Libya, so far. But mainly Putin and his employees seem to think that it was bad to support an uprising to get rid of the previous junta in Libya (and they are probably mostly upset because Gadaffi was a good customer). And about Syria -- how many tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of civilians have t…

Revolutions are reasonably predictable, after all, history rhymes. From my point of view I would agree that Libya was better off with Gaddafi. Gaddafi was negotiating a surrender with free elections but Hillary Clinton blocked it because she wanted him dead and needed to boost her foreign policy resume. She then bragged about it afterwards. Libya is unlikely to recover in a meaningful way for the duration of the mode…

> US is pushing so hard for an economic war / proxy war / shooting war with Russia is pretty complex and out of scope for this response.

Brand new account - check.

Pushing 'Evil US vs Innocent Russia' agenda - check.

Using Syria as a pretext to whitewash Russian war crimes - check.

Welcome, tovaristch.

Re: The Swedish Kings of Cyberwar

#90

Post by ggame »

PerfectDlite wrote: post #89
ggame wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Revolutions are reasonably predictable, after all, history rhymes. From my point of view I would agree that Libya was better off with Gaddafi. Gaddafi was negotiating a surrender with free elections but Hillary Clinton blocked it because she wanted him dead and needed to boost her foreign policy resume. She then bragged about it afterwards. Libya is unlikely to recover in a meaningful way for the duration of the mode…

> US is pushing so hard for an economic war / proxy war / shooting war with Russia is pretty complex and out of scope for this response. Brand new account - check. Pushing 'Evil US vs Innocent Russia' agenda - check. Using Syria as a pretext to whitewash Russian war crimes - check. Welcome, tovaristch.

I have clearly done none of what you accuse me of. I have never said, or even implied, that Russia is an innocent party. Nor have I suggested that US blunders excuse Russian war crimes.

I consider Russia to be an oppressive, dysfunctional, dictatorial regime. It's citizens are drinking themselves to death with depression.

I am more critical of US policies for the same reason George Orwell focused his writing to be critical of the left; obvious fascism is obvious. You are probably already aware of it so there is little point in me reminding you. Perhaps I could have done a better job in letting you know that I know about Russia and Syrias shortcomings. I assumed that would have been self evident.

I'm an America loving American and consider my belief system to be a mix of Noam Chompsky, Christopher Hitchens, Ron Paul, Bertrand Russell, and Nigel Farage... which is eclectic to say the least

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