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H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

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Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#171

Post by Retric »

cmurf wrote: post #129
geebee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that I'm sympathetic to employers who want to pay less. Keep in mind, the US takes in well over a million immigrants a year, and has a huge internal workforce. The H1B was created to help employers find critical and highly skilled workers that are in desperately short supply in the US. "Oh, but we can't afford to pay them a lot of money, that's not fair!" isn't the sort of argument that tends to evoke mu…

Why is it OK to pay a cheap wage for work done by an outsourced employee not in the U.S. for the benefit of a U.S. customer; but suddenly not OK when that person is in the U.S.? If the answer is merely, a critical plurality doesn't like that market outcome and has voted to legislate an alternative outcome, well OK. That's the system we have. But on principle, this must be admitted to be protectionism, it's the anti-t…

Outsourcing results in rapid salary increases in foreign economies, but low wage workers depress US salaries. So they are not apples to apples comparisons.

US workers be they foreign or domestic benefit from US infrastructure like relativly low corruption, clean water etc. Companies want to benefit from that without paying the associated costs.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#172

Post by badminton1 »

This post might be hard to read, but believe me I wish to be as respectful as possible and contribute my perspective.

Economy follows the path of least resistance. If hiring a local costs $120,000 but a guy you can message via LinkedIn and interview over the phone can do the same work for $80,000 with less negotiating power and less job mobility, then you do it. If you don't do it, your competitor or someone else will and then use the advantage to beat you in the market. The path of least resistance is also the reason companies move their headquarters to tax havens.

Then, there is a culture issue. Americans are very competitive, even in situations where the best strategy is to collaborate. It can be hard to work with someone who you know will compete at any opportunity even when it makes no sense at all, like getting angry when receiving a suggestion no matter the intention.

Then, everyone is defensive of what is said and how it is said because basically anything can get you sued. The most valuable American management skill is basically how to avoid getting the company sued. Like saying everything on a 1 on 1 meeting with no witnesses or record of it happening.

Then, Americans can hop jobs easily. Make someone angry (e.g: giving feedback, assigning a boring task or project) and that person will quit. Not so easily with H-1Bs.

This creates a culture where it is cheaper to set people for failure and fire them rather than giving them proper feedback, or letting them spend millions in reinventing the wheel with a pet project rather than seeing them go en-masse.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#173

Post by uiri »

shas3 wrote: post #24

I think there's a big misconception here on this thread, thanks to the poorly written WSJ blog post. Rep. Issa's bill only applies to companies which have more than 15% of their workforce of 50 or more on visas. That number is calibrated to affect outsourcing companies like Infosys, TCS, HCL, etc. So, while it's fun to jump on the "foreigners shouldn't work in America" bandwagon on this thread, this bill is not what…

Since this might be relevant for some startup founders on here, I have a slight nitpick related to the 15% number. There are still thresholds for employers with 50 or fewer employees.

    Total Employees | threshold to be classified a H-1B dependent employer
    25 or fewer     | more than 7 H-1B immigrants
    26 - 50         | more than 12 H-1B immigrants
    51 or more      | at least 15% of total employees
Note the discontinuity at 50/51 - 8 is over 15% of 51.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#174

Post by flamedoge »

hackerboos wrote: post #28
mjevans wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this proposed bill doesn't go far enough. H-1B visas should ONLY be granted for workers that are in such need that they are above the 90th percentile of pay for that role. They should also be limited to no more commitment to the company than their peer workers. Once within the country, an H-1B worker should also be able to leave for other employment (without the top market rate requirement) whenever they…

As someone that came through Canada's equivalent of the H1-B system, I think the Canadian system gets it mostly right: - A points system based on a combination of industry requirement, education, experience and English/French language ability - Permanent resident from day one - No restrictions on moving employer or province - Health insurance coverage after 90 days (Ontario) - Citizenship after 3 years (once Bill C-2…

That's very generous

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#175

Post by nness »

dmode wrote: post #67

I support many H1B reforms - it is essentially a broken program. Canadian and Australian immigration systems provide a good model to build off of a successful high skilled guest worker program. Of course, like everything in the US, an army of lobbyists will prevent such common sense programs to be implemented. Raising the minimum wage to 100K is the wrong approach. Computer science degree programs are a major source…

Coincidentally, Australian's can apply for a high-skilled 2-year working visa with the US, the E3 visa (separate from the H1B). Whenever I hear the US discuss visa reforms, I panic a little that they'd alter or outright scrap the E3 visa.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#177

Post by BurningFrog »

suryacom wrote: post #77
ashwinaj wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they cannot change job Correction: You can change jobs, but the green card process needs to start again but you keep your priority date. EDIT: You can change jobs to another "similar" position i.e. the job responsibilities should be similar. You can't move from an individual contributer to a manager position for example. In this case, the green card application will have to be done again. > That gives the employers…

What you mean by you are a risk taker? You have no idea what you are comparing here. Will you risk your family getting deported due to a clerical error? Once H1B lose his job, he and his family has to leave the country in 15 days. Sell his house, pull kids out from school, etc. All this arises whenever H1B tries to change the job.

> Once H1B lose his job, he and his family has to leave the country in 15 days

This is not true in practice. There is a rule saying that, but it has never been enforced. As long as you don't leave the country, you'll have no problem looking for a new job for however long that takes.

At least that's what my immigration lawyer told me many years ago.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#178

Post by suryacom »

winter_blue wrote: post #168
suryacom wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you mean by you are a risk taker? You have no idea what you are comparing here. Will you risk your family getting deported due to a clerical error? Once H1B lose his job, he and his family has to leave the country in 15 days. Sell his house, pull kids out from school, etc. All this arises whenever H1B tries to change the job.

You are actually wrong about the 15 days. It's actually zero (0) days, according to USCIS: "There is no automatic 10-day or other grace period for terminated employees holding H-1B status, so once the individual is no longer in a lawful nonimmigrant status, he/she usually must depart from the United States." See: https://www.uscis.gov/tools/ombudsman-liaison/practical-immi... However, if your I-94 is still valid, bei…

I have crossed 6 years on H1B. So, if I change my job, maximum visa extension I can get is for 3 years (provided my employer was kind enough to give me a copy of the I-140 petition).

This is where it gets tricky. Within this 3 years I need to get a new PERM approved by the new employer. So, say I set aside 1 year for the new employer to get all the internal budgeting approvals and initiate my GC process. Then it takes at least another 6 months (no attorney's file PERM within 6 months these days) to file the PERM. And, then say another 1 year to get the PERM result. So, this will take me 2.5 years into my 3 years limit. Now, god forbid, if the PERM gets denied due to clerical error. There is not time left for another try. Pretty much pack-up and leave.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#179

Post by whenwillitstop »

hackerboos wrote: post #28
mjevans wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this proposed bill doesn't go far enough. H-1B visas should ONLY be granted for workers that are in such need that they are above the 90th percentile of pay for that role. They should also be limited to no more commitment to the company than their peer workers. Once within the country, an H-1B worker should also be able to leave for other employment (without the top market rate requirement) whenever they…

As someone that came through Canada's equivalent of the H1-B system, I think the Canadian system gets it mostly right: - A points system based on a combination of industry requirement, education, experience and English/French language ability - Permanent resident from day one - No restrictions on moving employer or province - Health insurance coverage after 90 days (Ontario) - Citizenship after 3 years (once Bill C-2…

That is horrendous, Trump 2016!

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#180

Post by throwaway729 »

uiri wrote: post #173
shas3 wrote: post #24

I think there's a big misconception here on this thread, thanks to the poorly written WSJ blog post. Rep. Issa's bill only applies to companies which have more than 15% of their workforce of 50 or more on visas. That number is calibrated to affect outsourcing companies like Infosys, TCS, HCL, etc. So, while it's fun to jump on the "foreigners shouldn't work in America" bandwagon on this thread, this bill is not what…

Since this might be relevant for some startup founders on here, I have a slight nitpick related to the 15% number. There are still thresholds for employers with 50 or fewer employees. Total Employees | threshold to be classified a H-1B dependent employer 25 or fewer | more than 7 H-1B immigrants 26 - 50 | more than 12 H-1B immigrants 51 or more | at least 15% of total employees Note the discontinuity at 50/51 - 8 is…

> Note the discontinuity at 50/51 - 8 is over 15% of 51.

Wow, that's really terribly designed and risks creating a disincentive to growth for companies that would otherwise be growing quickly. Someone should write their Congresspeople about this discontinuity.

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