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H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

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Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#121

Post by edblarney »

geebee wrote: post #95
edblarney wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" This will definitely help to reduce the use of H1B for hiring underpaid foreign labor." Surely it will, but it also may damage many companies ability to compete effectively. A lot of talented R&D folks, outside of the Valley, may be earning 80-95K doing valuable work - and most of the surpluses will go to those companies, to the US in form of taxes, and remember those people spend mostly in the US as well. So the i…

Here's the thing - if a corporation's "competitiveness" is dependent on a deeply coercive ability to control their employee's right to live and work in the US, with severely limited mobility rights for the worker, I'm not sure I care all that much. If you can't pay high enough wages to compete for talent that has the freedom to choose which job and industry they work in, then you're probably not a high value employer…

"dependent on a deeply coercive ability to control their employee's right to live and work in the US"

This is a little misplaced I think.

Google, FB et. al. are major users of H1 programs and I seriously doubt they are not 'high value employers'.

'The right to live and work' is governed by citizenship, which goes way beyond just economic issues.

In the 'general case' the H1 program is valuable: US companies can bring in top-talent from foreign places for a few years to do great work. That's good. It's when the H1's are used to displace local workers simply to lower wages - this is the problem.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#122

Post by shagie »

davidw wrote: post #55
Nrsolis wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something that I've long suspected was going on with the H1B system. In essence, we have a limited "guest worker" program that allocates most of the economic benefits to the company (in terms of a compliant workforce that has little incentive or ability to take their skills to a competing company that might offer a better salary or career options) while allocating most of the costs to the actual H1B workers A…

> allocating most of the costs to the actual H1B workers If it were not a good option for them, they wouldn't sign up for it, so it has more benefits than costs for them. In terms of competition.... IT is a very globalized industry already. > permanent legal residency to workers who have critical skills that make them attractive to industry. Once they are here, permanent residency along with all of the benefits that…

"Good" must be put into relative terms. "Better" works better - "if it were not a better option (than working/living conditions in their current country), they wouldn't sign up for it."

There is the opportunity for a significant gap between the effectively indentured servitude that H-1B may provide and the opportunities in other countries.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#123

Post by aianus »

suryacom wrote: post #110
aianus wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? There are loads of Canadians [0] on TNs and H1Bs in the US and most don't particularly care about ever getting a green card. How do you explain their presence if you believe companies only recruit foreigners from poor countries in order to exploit their desire for US residency? [0] https://techvibes.com/2012/02/24/there-are-350000-canadians-...

You missed my point. It is not about poor countries. Indian's and Chinese will not have job mobility for decades. That is the reason, last year, 80%+ of H1B visas went to Indian/Chinese nationals.

I didn't miss your point, I just don't agree with it.

I suspect 80%+ of H1B visas go to Indian/Chinese nationals simply because they represent a similarly large proportion of STEM graduates interested in emigrating from their home countries.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#124

Post by freddyc »

suryacom wrote: post #77
ashwinaj wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they cannot change job Correction: You can change jobs, but the green card process needs to start again but you keep your priority date. EDIT: You can change jobs to another "similar" position i.e. the job responsibilities should be similar. You can't move from an individual contributer to a manager position for example. In this case, the green card application will have to be done again. > That gives the employers…

What you mean by you are a risk taker? You have no idea what you are comparing here. Will you risk your family getting deported due to a clerical error? Once H1B lose his job, he and his family has to leave the country in 15 days. Sell his house, pull kids out from school, etc. All this arises whenever H1B tries to change the job.

> All this arises whenever H1B tries to change the job

Yes, getting fired sucks if you're on an H1B but your comment doesn't apply to job changers generally. H1B visas are transferable (with a little paperwork) so an employee looking to move jobs just needs to ensure that they have their ducks lined up and that any required paper work is filed - usually that means lighting a fire under the HR team of the new employer to make sure it doesn't slip through the cracks.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#125

Post by ashwinaj »

suryacom wrote: post #116
mortehu wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've switched jobs on H-1B three times. All it takes is waiting for the replacement visa to come through before you resign. In each case I trusted my current employer and told them I was waiting for a visa for a new job, but I didn't have to.

If you are on H1B past 6 years, then you will need the copy of approved I-140 petition to get the H1B transferred to the new employer. But, H1B visa holder does not have access to I-140 petition; it is employer's property.

> H1B visa holder does not have access to I-140 petition

I have the I140 petitions from the two employers that I had applied with. This sounds like you are talking about consulting companies who hold their employees hostage. No legitimate company can do that and you have legal recourse if they do.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#126

Post by cthalupa »

cbhl wrote: post #101
dmode wrote: post #67

I support many H1B reforms - it is essentially a broken program. Canadian and Australian immigration systems provide a good model to build off of a successful high skilled guest worker program. Of course, like everything in the US, an army of lobbyists will prevent such common sense programs to be implemented. Raising the minimum wage to 100K is the wrong approach. Computer science degree programs are a major source…

CS grads can easily make over 110k with a Bachelor's on H1B in the SF Bay Area. If you're looking to hire someone for less than that... hire an American!

In the SF Bay Area.

There are plenty of people who have no desire to live in places with that high of a cost of living.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#127

Post by dpark »

tn13 wrote: post #97
geebee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that I'm sympathetic to employers who want to pay less. Keep in mind, the US takes in well over a million immigrants a year, and has a huge internal workforce. The H1B was created to help employers find critical and highly skilled workers that are in desperately short supply in the US. "Oh, but we can't afford to pay them a lot of money, that's not fair!" isn't the sort of argument that tends to evoke mu…

> We're talking about empowering corporations to bestow US live and work rights on an employee of their choosing, in an end-run around normal immigration procedures. What is wrong with that ? Honestly I dont see why getting Indian and Chinese workers as cheap labor is bad either. Whatever regulations drove out manufacturing sector from USA mgiht drive out tech from USA too.

The entire justification for the H-1B visa system is so that we can bring in highly skilled labor to fill positions that cannot be filled with citizen talent for a reasonable price. If you're hiring H-1Bs at below market, your failure to fill the position is as likely due to your underpaying as it is an actual labor shortage. You cannot reasonably justify the need for H-1Bs if you're underpaying.

Further, if you use H-1Bs to fill positions that you could have filled with local talent, then you're taking that visa away from another company that might legitimately need it. Making H-1Bs dependent on bidding or pay seems a plausible way to ensure that they are going to companies with real need and not just companies that are trying to undercut the labor market.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#128

Post by X86BSD »

diogenescynic wrote: post #38
shas3 wrote: post #24

I think there's a big misconception here on this thread, thanks to the poorly written WSJ blog post. Rep. Issa's bill only applies to companies which have more than 15% of their workforce of 50 or more on visas. That number is calibrated to affect outsourcing companies like Infosys, TCS, HCL, etc. So, while it's fun to jump on the "foreigners shouldn't work in America" bandwagon on this thread, this bill is not what…

Sounds awesome considering those body shops use up most of the H-1B quota and significantly underpay their employees compared to industry wages. For example, somewhere between 47% and 85% of H-1Bs are being significantly underpaid compared to their peers, evidence that the program is not being used to bring over workers with "specialized knowledge" as they claim--but to drive down wages. It makes sense though, when y…

My wife is Indian. From Noida. I wasn't going to comment at all on this topic since it's already been beaten to death. But when I see the name Cognizant my blood BOILS.

Cognizant is the most atrocious slave labor company I have ever had the misfortunate of dealing with. My wife's first company in the US to work for was Cognizant. It is horribly run by corrupt indians, and they treated her like absolute slavery. The hours, the offshore team management and conference calls, the incredibly low pay, the worst most backstabbing coworkers ever. She had managers that not only never called her, they didn't even know she worked for them when she would get relocated to another state for another one of their clients.

Cognizant is appalling as a company.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#129

Post by cmurf »

geebee wrote: post #85
shas3 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure about the bidding war. I've been in situations where companies are looking for people with specific skills (e.g. working with specific microbiology techniques) but would never be able to outbid what Facebook or someone in Bay Area would pay for generalist skills in another field. There is nowhere close to 100% elasticity in wages to make an auction system fair. Also, this would handicap companies in low-…

I'm not sure that I'm sympathetic to employers who want to pay less. Keep in mind, the US takes in well over a million immigrants a year, and has a huge internal workforce. The H1B was created to help employers find critical and highly skilled workers that are in desperately short supply in the US. "Oh, but we can't afford to pay them a lot of money, that's not fair!" isn't the sort of argument that tends to evoke mu…

Why is it OK to pay a cheap wage for work done by an outsourced employee not in the U.S. for the benefit of a U.S. customer; but suddenly not OK when that person is in the U.S.? If the answer is merely, a critical plurality doesn't like that market outcome and has voted to legislate an alternative outcome, well OK. That's the system we have. But on principle, this must be admitted to be protectionism, it's the anti-thesis of a free market solution (which doesn't make it wrong, just call it for what is is). And protectionism is basically saying the local market is overpaid, that's why it needs to be protected.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#130

Post by [deleted] »

edblarney wrote: post #121
geebee wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing - if a corporation's "competitiveness" is dependent on a deeply coercive ability to control their employee's right to live and work in the US, with severely limited mobility rights for the worker, I'm not sure I care all that much. If you can't pay high enough wages to compete for talent that has the freedom to choose which job and industry they work in, then you're probably not a high value employer…

"dependent on a deeply coercive ability to control their employee's right to live and work in the US" This is a little misplaced I think. Google, FB et. al. are major users of H1 programs and I seriously doubt they are not 'high value employers'. 'The right to live and work' is governed by citizenship, which goes way beyond just economic issues. In the 'general case' the H1 program is valuable: US companies can bring…

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