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Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

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Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#131

Post by Freak_NL »

Spooky23 wrote: post #121
Freak_NL wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Crudely generalising; wouldn't engineering types be more susceptible to conclude that there is only one sanctioned way interpreting some text rather than someone with a humanities background? (I happen to be both. Poetry to me seems almost by definition something that will evoke different responses and insights for each reader.)

An engineer is unlikely to have spent a lot of time around humanities academia. The university that I attended was going through a power struggle at the time that resulted in a feminist takeover of the English and other departments. In my case, a professor in a course required by the general education requirements took issue with an essay I was required to read in front of the class (which was a story about my famili…

Ah I see, I thought you meant a more general comparison of how someone with a humanities or engineering background experiences poetry. I have no experience with US academics (which I presume you are referring to).

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#132

Post by slavik81 »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #92
pbz wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The task is to draw a thinking cat. You can complete this task in a million different ways. What you (should) get judged on is the technique used. Does it look like a cat, are the shadows properly drawn, are the proportions of the cat in order, does the cat look like it's thinking like a human would, etc. What is irrelevant is if that cat matches the image the teacher had in mind when she came up with the task.

I agree that should be the task. Unfortunately, this is a multiple-choice test, so the task is more "guess what I think the poet meant". There's no room for technique here.

Yet some people consistently do much better on these exams than others. There is definitely a skill to it.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#133

Post by thaumaturgy »

jjoonathan wrote: post #126
justifier wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

professors teach to their opinion i took a shakespeare course at university where we were asked to read troilus and cressida and compare it to its source troilus and criseyde by chaucer i wrote that i disliked the piece because it just read like someone who recently got burned in love venting irrationally, noting that i liked shakespeare's version more because he gives the last word to pandarus(o) who uses it to comi…

Why did you omit capital letters and periods and misuse ellipses in a post which attacks academic English? These choices would be annoying enough in any post but for this one in particular they undermine your credibility.

You've just called into question a race car driver's driving ability because you saw them not use their turn signal.

Capitalization and punctuation shouldn't be your signals for quality in a comment on Chaucer and Shakespeare and literary history.

I'm demonstrating one natural outcome of your criticism here by using proper punctuation, capitalization, and other grammatical minutiae while knowing not the damnedest thing about the quality or literary history of Troilus and Cressida.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#134

Post by kefka »

al2o3cr wrote: post #27
automatwon wrote: post #22

any test that questions the motivations of the author without asking the author is a big baloney sandwich English 101, Homework Assignment: Write a 8 page literary essay about book-X I presented my thesis and draft to the the instructor. She told me that I was completely wrong and that this paper would receive an inadequate grade. I admit, like all my other English papers, this one was BS, too. That doesn't inherentl…

" I went to the library, sifted through a bunch of academic journals (which the instructor believed to be the only legitimate source of truth, unsurprisingly), and found an article with a thesis and supporting evidence that paralleled my argument! I showed the instructor this paper, and just like that she said "oh, okay. The thesis makes sense."" Congratulations, you just learned the difference between making unsubst…

This is a classic appeal from authority. Is the idea worth discussing/debating/exploring? If not, leave it. If so, explore it. But this "professor's" opinion is tied to someone else who published as the authority.

All in all, it's a great way to encourage group-think. But then again, so are most academic departments.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#136

Post by NolF »

justifier wrote: post #93
Pitarou wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asimov being Asimov, he then went on to write a story about Shakespeare being summoned from the past to take a college course on his plays. He failed, of course.

professors teach to their opinion i took a shakespeare course at university where we were asked to read troilus and cressida and compare it to its source troilus and criseyde by chaucer i wrote that i disliked the piece because it just read like someone who recently got burned in love venting irrationally, noting that i liked shakespeare's version more because he gives the last word to pandarus(o) who uses it to comi…

Were your grades corrected with the added information?

I think grading matrixes would be well served it they assess the writing ability of the person. That is, how well can they justify their opinion with quotes and sources, rather than what the interpretation outcome itself.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#137

Post by pcl »

jjoonathan wrote: post #126
justifier wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

professors teach to their opinion i took a shakespeare course at university where we were asked to read troilus and cressida and compare it to its source troilus and criseyde by chaucer i wrote that i disliked the piece because it just read like someone who recently got burned in love venting irrationally, noting that i liked shakespeare's version more because he gives the last word to pandarus(o) who uses it to comi…

Why did you omit capital letters and periods and misuse ellipses in a post which attacks academic English? These choices would be annoying enough in any post but for this one in particular they undermine your credibility.

I'd say it reads pretty well. I didn't notice the atypical punctuation until I read your comment.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#138

Post by frozenport »

cderwin wrote: post #6

If she had known the answer, would that make the question any better? I remember back when I was in high school, I always sort of assumed that the authors of the poems we were tested on wouldn't be able to answer the ridiculous questions on our assessments. But even if they did, I've never been able to figure out what skills these questions were testing. If poems are open to interpretation, isn't it reasonable to thi…

Poems are not open to interpretation. Most are written with a clear motivation. Test questions ask "what was the author trying to say" and "how did they say it".

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#139

Post by smallnamespace »

matthewaveryusa wrote: post #101
cderwin wrote: post #6

If she had known the answer, would that make the question any better? I remember back when I was in high school, I always sort of assumed that the authors of the poems we were tested on wouldn't be able to answer the ridiculous questions on our assessments. But even if they did, I've never been able to figure out what skills these questions were testing. If poems are open to interpretation, isn't it reasonable to thi…

This reminds be of a hilarious problem I once had analyzing a poem in french lit class. Read this and tell me what you think (in english and french)? http://fleursdumal.org/poem/120 I thought the entire poem was sexual -- singular tree being a euphamism for a phallus, and the waves of the sea reverberations of an orgasm. I was given an F and sent to the principal's office. It was then and there that I decided that ma…

You're going to have to break down the metaphor more explicitly, because I don't think the structure (logical or otherwise) of the poem really points to such a straightforward interpretation.

Like, what is the isle then? Yourself?

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#140

Post by littletimmy »

Spooky23 wrote: post #121
Freak_NL wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Crudely generalising; wouldn't engineering types be more susceptible to conclude that there is only one sanctioned way interpreting some text rather than someone with a humanities background? (I happen to be both. Poetry to me seems almost by definition something that will evoke different responses and insights for each reader.)

An engineer is unlikely to have spent a lot of time around humanities academia. The university that I attended was going through a power struggle at the time that resulted in a feminist takeover of the English and other departments. In my case, a professor in a course required by the general education requirements took issue with an essay I was required to read in front of the class (which was a story about my famili…

Why was (s)he so offended by it?
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