I still can't understand how standardized testing is useful for anything. The only true result of an educational system isn't apparent until years later. I assume it's popular for political and business reasons (testing companies are all for profit) which ultimately have nothing to do with children learning.
Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems
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Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems
#12If you can answer the questions in the test correctly your level is the at least the highest level that can be measured by the test.
Why would it be a reasonable assumption that her level is the highest that can be measured? Should the test be changed so mediocre people can get the maximum score?
Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems
#13If she had known the answer, would that make the question any better? I remember back when I was in high school, I always sort of assumed that the authors of the poems we were tested on wouldn't be able to answer the ridiculous questions on our assessments. But even if they did, I've never been able to figure out what skills these questions were testing. If poems are open to interpretation, isn't it reasonable to thi…
> If she had known the answer, would that make the question any better?
If anyone can answer what the 'correct' interpretation of a piece of writing is, it's the author. If they can not, well maybe the authors intent wasn't what the questions are asking.
Of course this is a fundamental problem in the way we teach and test literature. No piece of work has a single meaning because meaning is found in the merging of the work and the viewers background. What we teach is that works have one correct interpretation and if you do not read it that way, you are wrong.
Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems
#14Why are we testing anyone on poems? The point is to be exposed to the possibilities of inducing emotional transformation through cultural creation and consumption. What is there to test about that other than, "did you feel it? Could you make something yourself that would also feel like something was happening? Do it." There's no proper interpretation, no expert opinion worth anything at all except for the salary the…
I agree that it's ridiculous to ask a student to interpret a poem on a test and expect them to interpret it in any way that resembles the test creator's interpretation.
But there are some things about poetry that are not subjective and that are related to the art of writing it and thus worth teaching.
In particular, metre/scansion and rhyme/rhyme schemes are crucial aspects of the art that can be identified objectively. (Analogous to expecting a music student to recognize syncopation or read musical notation.)
You can also test recognition of metaphor and simile without requiring interpretation thereof. With allegory you get into issues of cultural exposure to the source of the allegory, but if that source is something else in the curriculum you could ask a student to identify the allegory without interpreting it subjectively.
And of course, many of these techniques are used by effective writers of prose (which we generally hope for students to become) - just typically more sparingly.
You can also (as with visual arts and music) teach students to identify poetry of different styles or from different eras.
Basically, you can teach and you can objectively test recognition of a lot of techniques used by poets. These standardized tests may have been ridiculous, but that doesn't mean that including poetry on a standardized test at all has to be ridiculous.
Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems
#15If she had known the answer, would that make the question any better? I remember back when I was in high school, I always sort of assumed that the authors of the poems we were tested on wouldn't be able to answer the ridiculous questions on our assessments. But even if they did, I've never been able to figure out what skills these questions were testing. If poems are open to interpretation, isn't it reasonable to thi…
> If she had known the answer, would that make the question any better? If anyone can answer what the 'correct' interpretation of a piece of writing is, it's the author. If they can not, well maybe the authors intent wasn't what the questions are asking. Of course this is a fundamental problem in the way we teach and test literature. No piece of work has a single meaning because meaning is found in the merging of the…
Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems
#16If she had known the answer, would that make the question any better? I remember back when I was in high school, I always sort of assumed that the authors of the poems we were tested on wouldn't be able to answer the ridiculous questions on our assessments. But even if they did, I've never been able to figure out what skills these questions were testing. If poems are open to interpretation, isn't it reasonable to thi…
> If she had known the answer, would that make the question any better? If anyone can answer what the 'correct' interpretation of a piece of writing is, it's the author. If they can not, well maybe the authors intent wasn't what the questions are asking. Of course this is a fundamental problem in the way we teach and test literature. No piece of work has a single meaning because meaning is found in the merging of the…
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Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems
#17In the comedy movie "Back to School", wealthy business man Thornton Melon hires Kurt Vonnegut to write an essay for him on Kurt Vonnegut for English Literature class. The professor knows Melon did not write the essay and tells him "Whoever did write this doesn't know the first thing about Kurt Vonnegut!." He got an F.
Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems
#18Predicted, mostly, by Isaac Asimov in 1954:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Immortal_Bard
(TL;DR with spoiler: Time machine brings Shakespeare back to the current age, where he takes a class on his own work and is flunked.)
Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems
#19If she had known the answer, would that make the question any better? I remember back when I was in high school, I always sort of assumed that the authors of the poems we were tested on wouldn't be able to answer the ridiculous questions on our assessments. But even if they did, I've never been able to figure out what skills these questions were testing. If poems are open to interpretation, isn't it reasonable to thi…
> If she had known the answer, would that make the question any better? If anyone can answer what the 'correct' interpretation of a piece of writing is, it's the author. If they can not, well maybe the authors intent wasn't what the questions are asking. Of course this is a fundamental problem in the way we teach and test literature. No piece of work has a single meaning because meaning is found in the merging of the…
>If anyone can answer what the 'correct' interpretation of a piece of writing is, it's the author.
To echo the other comments questioning that premise, there's also the famous Isaac Asimov anecdote:
Isaac Asimov often repeated an anecdote based on this: He once sat in on a class where the topic of discussion was one of his own works. (He did this in the back of a large lecture hall so he could remain semi-anonymous). After the class ended, he went up and introduced himself to the teacher, saying that he had found the teacher's interpretation of the story interesting, though it really wasn't what he had meant at all. The teacher's response: "Just because you wrote it, what makes you think you have the slightest idea what it's about?"
Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems
#20English teachers serve to train a new generation of English teachers. Its a strange stable loop that formed in our educational system. The rest of us look on in confusion as they babble about imaginary features of written works that only they are competent to adjudicate.