If this were an article about poor people in India hiring their own militia because they couldn’t get adequate protection from the local government-sponsored police force, would anyone be considering this a model for the US to emulate?
Incredibly low-priced private schools
21–30 of 62 posts
Re: Incredibly low-priced private schools
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. You're assuming your conclusion. 2. Curriculum oversight is just another way of saying state sponsored indoctrination. 3. If parents believe that the schools are better than the alternatives, what right does anybody else have to butt in? In the American case they already pay for them through (local property) taxes anyway so they probably have good reason to pay a second time for the private version. 4. Would you s…
I don't think I'm making any assumptions -- these outcomes have been seen, as I've said, in Afghanistan and Pakistan. I am not going to respond to your second point... I think that is a point of debate that you're making out to be far more black-and-white than it really is. There is further complexity than you are admitting in your last two examples. There is a broad-reaching social impact that schooling, or lack the…
You're working off of your terminal values, your moral judgement, that the outcomes in Afghanistan and Pakistan are bad. That's a value judgement, not a fact one. So you can't but assume your conclusion, you desire outcome x because you do.
As to the state sponsored indoctrination bit, whether it's explicitly planned or comes about organically through political bargaining between those with the power and those with the strongly held opinions who are willing to fight for it, it happens anyway. You cannot avoid having a value system, and if you do not perpetuate it, it will be outcompeted by one that will.
I'm not denying complexity, I'm providing extreme examples as aids to thought. Look at the two ends of the spectrum and ask "What does my previously implicit value system say in these extreme cases?"
Would I oppose the Amish exemption? No, because the vast majority of students in this nation have access to basic education.
But don't the Amish children deserve to have the option to partake in broader society? And won't they have more and better information upon which to condition that choice if they attend government run schools until the normal school leaving age? Aren't they being harmed by being denied that opportunity?
teaching violent fundamentalism at the expense of basic education
What's violent fundamentalism? What's basic education? If the violent fundamentalists are the only ones providing education of any sort, a minimum of literacy for example, isn't that better than nothing for the vast majority of those who receive it who never do crap with the violent bit of the fundamentalism but who can read and write and probably do arithmetic when their chances to do so otherwise would have been much less?
On degree mills; what's wrong with a solely instructional institution that certifies competence in a given area? Most people don't give a damn about education as growth for the soul, why should they subsidise those who do, and help perpetuate a costly signalling mechanism that is socially wasteful if an alternative exists?
Re: Incredibly low-priced private schools
#23I've lamented the fact that we are such small thinkers today. Our neighborhood public school is among the worst in the state. Local private schools cost about 1500/mo for gradeschool. I was looked at as a wild man for suggesting we should start our own school. 20 kids' worth of parents can afford to employ a teacher at a very attractive rate for both parties I suspect.
Don't beat yourself up too badly: the unions have already thought of this, and it is likely illegal in your jurisdiction. After you get past the homeschool exemption, which was a brutal battle to get approved in many jurisdictions, you'll enter a heavily regulated industry against an entrenched competitor who has a legal moat and a team of lawyers who will file papers contesting each and every one of the seventy thre…
I call bullshit. I send my son to a private religious school (http://www.jcdsboston.org/) which is not sponsored by any synagogue of millionaires.
The Supreme Court declared in 1925 (Pierce v. Society of Sisters) that parents have the right to send their children to a private or religious school, and upheld in 1972 (Wisconsin v. Yoder) that parents could even get religious exemptions to state compulsory-attendance laws.
Re: Incredibly low-priced private schools
#24Even most private schools in America charge less per pupil than the government pays to educate a student in a public school. Governments are rarely efficient because they do not have to be.
>Governments are rarely efficient because they do not have to be. I'm starting to develop a theory that governments are efficient, even very much so, except to another metric. The US Gov's Education Department metric seems to be "pleasing the teacher's unions", not financial efficiency. And at that, they are very good.
Because No Child Left Behind is just every teacher's favorite legislature, and nothing makes teachers happier than 50 hour work weeks for low wages.
The two biggest problems any teacher I know can find with the current public school system are:
1. Over reliance on standardized test as the only metric of education. Making it difficult to teach kids engaging material in various subjects (Nope, can't cover history's 10 craziest revolutions, have to cover the civil war for the tenth time) because there is so much that they have to learn specifically.
2. A lack of any real power.
True story: My mom once gave a child an F in english, he had a course average of 20%, the child's mom came in complained that her child COULD NOT go to summer school because they had a trip to europe already planned and booked, threatened a law suit and the principle made my mom raise change it to a D.
Another: in Florida at least it had become so difficult to hold a child back a grade in middle school that freshman were coming into high school who hadn't passed 5th grade reading tests. 14% of the freshman one year were functionally illiterate.
Neither of those had anything to do with "government inefficiency." It's the mandate to educate everyone. A private school can have very specific terms and as long as they got a good lawyer to draw up the contract the parents don't have a leg to stand on if the private school kicks their kid out, flunks them, holds them back, gives the detention etc.
EDIT: note that when I a lack of power I mean over academic matters. Recently the supreme court said strip searching a 14 year old girl in front of the male principle because she had Tylenol in her purse was okay. That's some terrifying power.
Re: Incredibly low-priced private schools
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't beat yourself up too badly: the unions have already thought of this, and it is likely illegal in your jurisdiction. After you get past the homeschool exemption, which was a brutal battle to get approved in many jurisdictions, you'll enter a heavily regulated industry against an entrenched competitor who has a legal moat and a team of lawyers who will file papers contesting each and every one of the seventy thre…
I call bullshit. I send my son to a private religious school ( http://www.jcdsboston.org/ ) which is not sponsored by any synagogue of millionaires. The Supreme Court declared in 1925 (Pierce v. Society of Sisters) that parents have the right to send their children to a private or religious school, and upheld in 1972 (Wisconsin v. Yoder) that parents could even get religious exemptions to state compulsory-attendance…
Your school's annual operating budget is $4.5 million dollars. (Of which ~$1.2 million is subsidized by your synagogue and other fundraising.)
That lets them afford a staff to do things like, e.g., keep immunization records and shuffle them around when students transfer. If they didn't, they would be shut down. One issue down, seventy two to go.
I am not seeing how this makes my contentions false.
Re: Incredibly low-priced private schools
#26This is very cool, but I can't help remembering that the Wahhabi schools in Afghanistan and Pakistan (incorrectly called "madrassas", which is just a generic Arabic word for "school") would also fall into this category of small, private, low-cost schools. I wonder what can be done to ensure that schools like this that are run by potentially less scrupulous proprietors provide a quality education. I know that's not we…
It is somewhat sad how transparent your bias is. You seem to be painting all low cost private schools with the same brush as institutions where the rote learning of religious texts is the main goal by calling it "the Wahhabi road of teaching".
Re: Incredibly low-priced private schools
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't beat yourself up too badly: the unions have already thought of this, and it is likely illegal in your jurisdiction. After you get past the homeschool exemption, which was a brutal battle to get approved in many jurisdictions, you'll enter a heavily regulated industry against an entrenched competitor who has a legal moat and a team of lawyers who will file papers contesting each and every one of the seventy thre…
I call bullshit. I send my son to a private religious school ( http://www.jcdsboston.org/ ) which is not sponsored by any synagogue of millionaires. The Supreme Court declared in 1925 (Pierce v. Society of Sisters) that parents have the right to send their children to a private or religious school, and upheld in 1972 (Wisconsin v. Yoder) that parents could even get religious exemptions to state compulsory-attendance…
Neither of which address his point that creating a school is very costly, in part due to regulation and (possibly) external interference. In fact, your example supports this - the website for the very school you cited announces over $1M in annual donations to their scholarship fund alone - which is precisely the level of funding patio11 suggests is necessary.
Re: Incredibly low-priced private schools
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't beat yourself up too badly: the unions have already thought of this, and it is likely illegal in your jurisdiction. After you get past the homeschool exemption, which was a brutal battle to get approved in many jurisdictions, you'll enter a heavily regulated industry against an entrenched competitor who has a legal moat and a team of lawyers who will file papers contesting each and every one of the seventy thre…
I call bullshit. I send my son to a private religious school ( http://www.jcdsboston.org/ ) which is not sponsored by any synagogue of millionaires. The Supreme Court declared in 1925 (Pierce v. Society of Sisters) that parents have the right to send their children to a private or religious school, and upheld in 1972 (Wisconsin v. Yoder) that parents could even get religious exemptions to state compulsory-attendance…
You underestimate the power of entrenched interests over municipalities, the largest of which is often zoning. Zoning regulations are fun in part because the government can (and often does) make ad hoc exemptions for public schools but provides very little leeway for public schools. http://reason.org/news/show/127456.html discusses a bit of the problem.
But to delve a little deeper: in California, nearly every municipality of any size requires a special-use permit or conditional use permit (CUP) to build a school. There is no "school" zoning code. Almost never are such permits granted in industrial use areas, despite sometimes being locations that might have little to no risk. That means the school functionally has to get a CUP in a residential zone. Which residents often don't like because, even for a small school, it means a substantial increase in traffic. This is doubly difficult because not only does the school have to fight to receive zoning, but trivial-to-place legal challenges can lead to a huge expense. For instance, challenging zoning for environmental reasons is nearly trivial but an extended environmental impact report alone can cost millions of dollars.
So there's a substantial risk involved in the launch without any option for a quick buyout. Remember, these are almost all 501(c)(3) institutions (I don't know of any that aren't, but I could imagine there are).
Re: Incredibly low-priced private schools
#29Even most private schools in America charge less per pupil than the government pays to educate a student in a public school. Governments are rarely efficient because they do not have to be.
According to http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_spe_per_pri_sch_stu-sp... the US spends about $6K per child for primary education. I don't know about the US but private schools here in the UK are rather more than that (we pay a total of about $15K a year).
"the US spends about $6K per child for primary education."
The cost for our children at a Catholic elementary school here in the U.S. is about half that.
Re: Incredibly low-priced private schools
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. You're assuming your conclusion. 2. Curriculum oversight is just another way of saying state sponsored indoctrination. 3. If parents believe that the schools are better than the alternatives, what right does anybody else have to butt in? In the American case they already pay for them through (local property) taxes anyway so they probably have good reason to pay a second time for the private version. 4. Would you s…
I don't think I'm making any assumptions -- these outcomes have been seen, as I've said, in Afghanistan and Pakistan. I am not going to respond to your second point... I think that is a point of debate that you're making out to be far more black-and-white than it really is. There is further complexity than you are admitting in your last two examples. There is a broad-reaching social impact that schooling, or lack the…
The Netherlands is an example of a country with a vigorous system of publicly funded, privately operated schools of diverse backgrounds.