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Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

stallman.org

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Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#91

Post by true_religion »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #78
schlowmo wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "[...] whose duty is it to volunteer to clean it up?" While this isn't applicable in all areas, a rule of thumb could be "those who making money with the people which have to use toilets". Anecdotal example: I'm living in an amusement district of a big German City. There are very few public toilets and most of the few are paid ones. So every weekend the whole district is smelling like a big bowl of piss, except in…

Or better yet, why not enact laws that say bars, clubs, gas stations, liquor stores, restaurants and cafés have to have free toilets? Give them some compensation, e.g. government pays for putting in or upgrading the bathroom and the restaurant just has to keep it clean and open. It solves most of the problems with public toilets out on the street, such as them being nasty and occupied by homeless people, because the…

Don't they have to?

In the US, there's a law that says all places that serve food and aren't on a public street (e.g. a food truck), have to have a public toilet.

At least in my jurisdiction, gas station don't have public toilets because they want to---they have it because since they serve reheated hot dogs, they are required to have a toilet.

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#92

Post by kodfodrasz »

kuschku wrote: post #80
kodfodrasz wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you are paying taxes is the government cannot track you, but if you have to pay for the toilets, the government can suddenly track you. Also god save me from using a toilet a homeless has used before. Free stuff looses from quality quickly, and the poor, the homeless and the druggies usually do not honor public property and it is quickly degraded. Then does the government pay to renovate the property? Sure,…

> Sure, if you are paying taxes is the government cannot track you, but if you have to pay for the toilets, the government can suddenly track you. If I pay taxes, the government knows I live in the country. If I pay for the toilets, someone can create a full and detailed movement profile of where I am when, and track me – and predict where I will be on what day at what time. Paying separately, with each payment track…

The government knows where you live, where you work, and who are your relatives, and the same data about them. They will not track you by the toilets.

So the only opportunity you give those who wish to track you is the use of public toilets, because you never pay for any other kind of goods or services, you are invisible to CCTV cameras, but for some reason you can only use public loos. (not one at your workplace, at home, or one at a restaurant you are given an untrackable meal. Also there are no other means to create a movement profile about you.

I have used public toilets less than 10 times last year, and paid for it each time. What a profile the evil toilet-trackers have about me now!

>> Free stuff looses from quality quickly, and the poor, the homeless and the druggies usually do not honor public property and it is quickly degraded.

>That mentality is quite troubling to see.

I agree that that mentality is troubling to see, yet they still stick to it. I know no ethical way to solve it.

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#94

Post by franciscop »

icebraining wrote: post #55
franciscop wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming from Spain and having lived in Japan, I have come to believe that the US is really far away from what can be considered a civilized society. There's a huge mismatch between the public opinion (best country) and the reality that you can see through smaller things like this. Some of these things are better even in the so-called "third world countries". Note: Spain was named for the smaller things like this ; pub…

Are there public toilets generally in Spain? I don't remember them from my stays in Galicia, Barcelona or Salamanca.

Not many, I was talking more about Japan for public toilets, which I certainly consider more advanced than Spain. I named Spain because of other basic things to expect in civilized countries (public and good quality health/education among others).

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#95

Post by [deleted] »

franciscop wrote: post #41
sambeau wrote: post #8

I'm not sure if this was put here to ridicule Stallman or as a coda to his comments about Skype but this is a simple well-explained argument that I happen to agree with. If local government can't use local taxes to provide shared toilet facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? Community toilets (and streets clear of shit & piss) are, in my opinion, a fundamental…

Coming from Spain and having lived in Japan, I have come to believe that the US is really far away from what can be considered a civilized society. There's a huge mismatch between the public opinion (best country) and the reality that you can see through smaller things like this. Some of these things are better even in the so-called "third world countries". Note: Spain was named for the smaller things like this ; pub…

[deleted]

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#96

Post by Normal_gaussian »

gcatalfamo wrote: post #19

I don't want to be "that guy" but, here in Italy, I have heard of several accounts of Stallmans visiting local Linux User Groups (full of his "fans"), and he would have them pay for his dinner or he wouldn't go. Although I understand his point: - I find pay toilets cleaner and I am not sure it is worth delving into changing the national policy of better maintained free clean toilets with all the problem we want to se…

> I don't want to be "that guy" but, here in Italy, I have heard of several accounts of Stallmans visiting local Linux User Groups (full of his "fans"), and he would have them pay for his dinner or he wouldn't go.

So just like any touring speaker?

> - I am starting to think his addressing to "proprietary" stuff is more related to "avoid paying" than defending what is free.

This view is false. You should read more of what he has written, especially in regard to 'free' services that are only financially free.

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#97

Post by zeroxfe »

gcatalfamo wrote: post #19

I don't want to be "that guy" but, here in Italy, I have heard of several accounts of Stallmans visiting local Linux User Groups (full of his "fans"), and he would have them pay for his dinner or he wouldn't go. Although I understand his point: - I find pay toilets cleaner and I am not sure it is worth delving into changing the national policy of better maintained free clean toilets with all the problem we want to se…

> I don't want to be "that guy" but, here in Italy, I have heard of several accounts of Stallmans visiting local Linux User Groups (full of his "fans"), and he would have them pay for his dinner or he wouldn't go.

That doesn't sound unreasonable to me -- it's probably the least "fans" could do to have a celebrity at their event, which he's going out of his way to attend.

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#98

Post by personlurking »

icebraining wrote: post #55
franciscop wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming from Spain and having lived in Japan, I have come to believe that the US is really far away from what can be considered a civilized society. There's a huge mismatch between the public opinion (best country) and the reality that you can see through smaller things like this. Some of these things are better even in the so-called "third world countries". Note: Spain was named for the smaller things like this ; pub…

Are there public toilets generally in Spain? I don't remember them from my stays in Galicia, Barcelona or Salamanca.

In Lisbon, Portugal there are. They usually cost a trivial amount to use and thus are frequently utilized by the homeless population.

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#99

Post by gravypod »

sambeau wrote: post #8

I'm not sure if this was put here to ridicule Stallman or as a coda to his comments about Skype but this is a simple well-explained argument that I happen to agree with. If local government can't use local taxes to provide shared toilet facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? Community toilets (and streets clear of shit & piss) are, in my opinion, a fundamental…

"Money doesn't smell" I think was the expression.
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