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The Reality of Developer Burnout

kennethreitz.org

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Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#171

Post by lukaszkups »

wott wrote: post #92
lukaszkups wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO not exactly. I feel the same and decreased list of following people couple times. Couple days ago I've thought about switch to HackerNews & Publish only mode because I feel like everybody around has great life, skills, projects and work for awesome companies. There's too many successful stories around that sometimes can cause depression more than stories about failures. It's a bit hard to explain properly in sin…

When you're depressed, the last thing you want to see is happy people. They are infuriating and depressing. It is much better to see other people with problems, because it makes your own look less terrible in comparison, and because you're not an odd beast in their eyes, that one should pity or avoid as if you could be contagious. The problem, then, is not to stay locked in this circle forever. It's like all the suic…

Yes, exactly - not only depressed but also just in 'bad mood' or something - in my case it is often caused by feeling that I have too less time and want too much to do (and partly because of reading lots of social media news, so it is somehow related).

Very often I catch myself of being angry because of lack of time, but instead do something with that I mindlessly scroll through my news feeds.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#172

Post by lukaszkups »

justinclift wrote: post #74
SadWebDeveloper wrote: post #58

I solve developer burnout by playing videos games and paying for hookers. Alcohol only causes more depression.

Not sure "solve" is the right term there. ;)

yeah, not sure about hookers, because I've never met any (and I think it actually CAN cause depression in some way IMHO), but playing games can help - especially multiplayer ones.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#173

Post by VexXtreme »

relics443 wrote: post #130

TL;DR I experienced massive burnout after ridiculous working hours and a broken contract I experienced terrible burnout around a year ago that I'm still working to get over. I had taken a pay cut to join a startup with the promise (contractually) that I receive a raise to market value + bonus after 12 months. The latter 6 of those months were spent working 16 hour days ramping up to a massive launch. There were multi…

I've been in a similar situation and all I can say is I feel you. I've become very distrustful and suspicious of people in this industry, especially the fast-talking "we're changing the world" kind.

Ultimately, if people want to renege, they will renege. Unless you have a ton of money and energy to throw at lawsuits, it's better to structure your deals in a way that clips your potential downside (e.g. work on a retainer basis, don't accept stocks in lieu of cash etc).

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#174

Post by tom_wilde »

pc86 wrote: post #8
coldcode wrote: post #3

If you are developing software as a life, you don't have one; if on the other hand you are developing software for fun, you are having it; if you are just developing software for money; leave it at work. It's hard to be buried 100% in software and realize the rest of life is more important.

The best thing I ever did for my professional life was acquiring new interests that had nothing to do with software but were still intellectually and/or physically stimulating. Weightlifting is cheap, has proven physical and psychological benefits, and is eventually fun (sucks for the first few weeks/months though). I just recently starting taking lessons to get a private pilot's license. GA is expensive (relatively…

I strongly recommend running as a burnout cure...

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#175

Post by NumberCruncher »

eliasbagley wrote: post #142
zoeysaurusrex wrote: post #6

> Not only that, but I found myself censoring my own private thought processes, in the silent comfort of my own home, because of the public opinion of people I follow on Twitter. I deleted my Twitter account because of this. I realized it was an empty echo chamber of inaction. If anything you say can be interpreted in a way that the hivemind can destroy you over, they will do it, even with incomplete information and…

> I realized it was an empty echo chamber of inaction. If anything you say can be interpreted in a way that the hivemind can destroy you over, they will do it, even with incomplete information and little to no proof. A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

Seneca said that if you publish something you have to bear the critics. This should be clear to everyone before posting online.

I think Kenneth is one of the people who should be a bit more ignorant and arrogant. [1]

[1] https://m.signalvnoise.com/a-cocktail-for-putting-dents-in-t...

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#176

Post by braveo »

lacampbell wrote: post #124
aaron-lebo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is feeling more and more contrarian lately in my comments here and regretting it, I think it's because after a decade of HN, everything starts to the look the same. Everybody is trying to sell a framework, a startup, a language, or their own personal brand and it turns into a big circlejerk of everyone patting themselves on the back because they've got some secret knowledge. Sometimes it doesn't seem l…

I've enjoyed arguing (debating?) who with people about OO and FP here. I don't get the downvoting backlash despite going a bit against current fashions (I still like objects and think they make a great foundation for computing in general). The only time I get heavily downvoted for being critical is when I mention a certain programming language - which I happen to like.

Unfortunately, you can't really have good discourse on HN due to the mods.

strong discourse naturally requires conflict, and it's also a part of the learning process that the other poster was talking about (which doesn't happen on HN).

What you get instead is mostly a circlejerk of people being nice for no reason other than reputation on this site. It's so embedded into this site that people talk about "contrarian", as if having a negative view of something, and expressing it, is a problem.

It's only a "problem" on HN.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#177

Post by braveo »

thenomad wrote: post #94
debt wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So people who love their jobs can also burn out? I don't buy it. Personally, I've never heard of or met anyone who loves their job and has burned out. Have you?

Frequently. Burnout is a huge problem in the creative industries, amongst people who have fought, worked for years or decades, and clawed their way into a job they love and have wanted to do their entire adult lives. For example, as Ron Moore (I think) says in the documentary "Showrunners", there's a reason almost no TV showrunner is much older than their early 50s. The job (which is insanely intense) burns you out,…

There's a difference between loving your work and loving your job.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#178

Post by Dayshine »

derefr wrote: post #64
paulcole wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say this about any field. A ditch digger loses "intrinsic motivation" and chooses to not dig a ditch. The ditch digger can't do their job because of burnout. But somehow it is different in software development?

You can whip a tired ditch-digger until they dig more. You can't whip a tired programmer until they write working code. You'll only get broken code. A good analogy might be to the division between rank-and-file soldiers in the military, and military officers. You don't need to think to shoot a gun. You do need to think to decide where to send people to shoot their guns.

And you'll get uneven ditches...

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#179

Post by [deleted] »

derefr wrote: post #64
paulcole wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say this about any field. A ditch digger loses "intrinsic motivation" and chooses to not dig a ditch. The ditch digger can't do their job because of burnout. But somehow it is different in software development?

You can whip a tired ditch-digger until they dig more. You can't whip a tired programmer until they write working code. You'll only get broken code. A good analogy might be to the division between rank-and-file soldiers in the military, and military officers. You don't need to think to shoot a gun. You do need to think to decide where to send people to shoot their guns.

[deleted]

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#180

Post by candu »

ensiferum wrote: post #164
omginternets wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect, you say this as though bluntness were a virtue. I've found that putting a little bit of effort into form goes a long way in generating useful feedback. Stated otherwise, it's about recognizing that we're not talking face-to-face, and that the characteristics of this particular mode of communication make it easy to misinterpret (often for worse) what is being said. tl;dr: my favorite way to start a comme…

Respect is not a given, it's earned. If you "respect" everyone it's the same as respecting no one.

I prefer to extend respect, trust, etc. to others by default, with the understanding that it can be unearned. This way, I counter whatever unconscious or "first impression" biases I might have about what "respect-worthiness" looks like, and I find it leads to a much more positive / open-minded relationship with the rest of humanity than demanding others prove "respect-worthiness" up front would.

There are also degrees of respect, and accordingly there are absolutely people I respect more than others. (It's not a total ordering, though, nor is it a zero-sum game.)

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