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Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio

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Re: Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio

#151

Post by Angostura »

ringe wrote: post #140

This is all about lobbying politicians. Very hard to understand why they want to set aside separate bandwidth for different sorts of media, when Internet access would provide all we needed. We have digital radio, digital television broadcast, separate emergency frequencies and so goes the list. What about gathering around standard that work and are already in place? What about making cell phone and Internet connectiv…

Errr - are you really suggesting that we really move all broadcast media to TCP/IP? You're going to give free streaming plans to everyone in the country?

Or does it perhaps make sense to use dedicated broadcast technology for free-to-air broadcasts?

Re: Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio

#152

Post by Angostura »

nicky0 wrote: post #83
th0ma5 wrote: post #44

It is a real shame that the US went with the proprietary HD Radio scheme. The devices are so expensive and there hardly are any available. Just now I couldn't even find anything less than $100. What a scam. I feel sorry for all the radio stations that wasted money on this. Would DAB be able to gain ground in the US?

Be careful what you wish for, DAB is pretty horrible too.

In what respect? I have DAB at home and in the car in the UK and find it reliable and decent quality.

Re: Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio

#153

Post by Angostura »

msh wrote: post #56

I know I am properly a outlier but how many people on HN actually listens to radio over FM/DAB/Other non IP systems? I dont remember when I last listened to radio. Even in the car the entertainment is one or more of the following from the connected phone: - Streaming or locally stored music - Podcasts (which may include shows produced by radio stations). - Audiobooks. At home its the same, either played directly on t…

I listen to radio a lot in the UK, but then the BBC has many excellent ad-free channels.

Re: Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio

#154

Post by TheGirondin »

audunw wrote: post #80
dtech wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't the spectrum be used/sold for other purposes? Otherwise stopping FM isn't much use.

> Otherwise stopping FM isn't much use. I think the main motivation to shut down FM is that now that DAB is built-out sufficiently (or so they say), running both at the same time is expensive. FM transmitters are supposedly quite power hungry and expensive to operate. It will take at least a decade or two to free up the FM band for other uses anyway. Norway will probably wait and use it in a way that aligns with the…

>It will take at least a decade or two to free up the FM band for other uses anyway. Norway will probably wait and use it in a way that aligns with the rest of the world, rather than finding its own local use for the spectrum.

And that's the difference between an entrepreneurial, capitalist minded society and a socialist minded one.

Re: Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio

#155

Post by jpindar »

ereyes01 wrote: post #51
a1studmuffin wrote: post #28

Don't most smartphones have emergency broadcasts built-in these days? Who doesn't have their phone on them when they're driving in a car?

Question I have is how resilient is the cell network in the event of a large-scale power outage? Can the antennae towers still operate without the power grid?

They have batteries, but I don't think they last very long.

Re: Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio

#156

Post by richmarr »

kagamine wrote: post #115
varjag wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For one, the electric car market markets itself as green and while they are running on renewable energy, the costs and sources of power for building them are reportedly a lot less environmentally friendly. This is the kind of made up on spot arguments you hear from ICE vehicle owners. Until they switch to EV :) "Manufacturing a mid-sized EV with an 84-mile range results in about 15 percent more emissions than manuf…

Sort of just what I said. I did state "reportedly" and not provide any sources. I don't think I was being unfair to the EV market. However, buying a new car and junking the old one has to be less energy efficient than owning an old car and trying to use it less while utilizing public transport. Public transport is something I could have mentioned in my original post as it is not prioritized enough here in Norway and…

> ...even though a diesel engine run on veg oil is emissions free.

This just isn't true. Local emissions of bio-diesel are comparable to petro-diesel.

When you factor in that C02 is absorbed during manufacture, biodiesel is estimated to have 45%-65% lower net emissions than petro-diesel, but that ignores the fact that you just repurposed viable farmland (or in some cases rainforest) and changed its C02 profile, potentially reducing or erasing any net benefit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_biodie...

Another challenge is what to do with all the waste glycerol (100kg per ton of biodiesel), since prices crashed a few years back

Re: Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio

#157

Post by w8rbt »

askvictor wrote: post #121

The article didn't talk about why? It's not as if the FM bandwidth is particularly valuable, being quite a low frequency. Unlike digital tv, there doesn't seem to be a particularly pressing reason to do this; if broadcasters are happy to keep broadcasting on FM, why stop them?

There is only one reason. It's much more efficient. Engineers have to keep slicing things thinner and thinner to accommodate more and more people and needs. This impacts everything. Food, water, shelter, medications, transportation, communications, etc. Efficiency is king. It has to be.

Re: Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio

#158

Post by kagamine »

jasonlingx wrote: post #150
kagamine wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of just what I said. I did state "reportedly" and not provide any sources. I don't think I was being unfair to the EV market. However, buying a new car and junking the old one has to be less energy efficient than owning an old car and trying to use it less while utilizing public transport. Public transport is something I could have mentioned in my original post as it is not prioritized enough here in Norway and…

> even though a diesel engine run on veg oil is emissions free Nonsense.

Well thanks for the well-reasoned and neatly laid out rebuffal, it's what I come to HN for. Perhaps "free from harmful emissions" would be better, I'm not in that field of expertise so I can't say, but if you take issue with plant based fuel over fossil fuels then I would like to hear that rational: preferably in a one word answer sans context. /bitchy

Re: Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio

#159

Post by kagamine »

taway_1212 wrote: post #144
kagamine wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of just what I said. I did state "reportedly" and not provide any sources. I don't think I was being unfair to the EV market. However, buying a new car and junking the old one has to be less energy efficient than owning an old car and trying to use it less while utilizing public transport. Public transport is something I could have mentioned in my original post as it is not prioritized enough here in Norway and…

> However, buying a new car and junking the old one has to be less energy efficient than owning an old car and trying to use it less while utilizing public transport. I don't know about Norway specifically, but in Western Europe in general (Germany, France, Netherlands, Switzerland etc.) old cars are sold to less well-off EU countries, where they're still in operation for (typically) many more years. So, the Western…

That's something I would really have to see hard facts on before I could believe it.

Re: Norway to become first country to switch off FM radio

#160

Post by kagamine »

Retric wrote: post #135
kagamine wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also believe this is primarily driven by money, but also a section of Norwegian society seems to believe that anything new and shiny simply must be bought and right away. In a country in which environmental concerns are marketed as paramount by the government and media there are some obvious dichotomies emerging. For one, the electric car market markets itself as green and while they are running on renewable energy…

When you hand in an old cellphone they just resell it the same for used cars, so lease programs don't result wast the way you are thinking.

Then why have I read news reports over the last few years about the used-mobile mountain piling up and how hard they are to recycle?
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