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Americans Are Putting Billions More Than Usual in Their 401(k)s

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Re: Americans Are Putting Billions More Than Usual in Their 401(k)s

#331

Post by mywittyname »

chrisabrams wrote: post #255
knz wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Social Security is an authoritarian play, or a power play A more charitable view would be that social security is an attempt to provide a minimum standard of living for all seniors and the disabled. How do you propose that society cares for these people, particularly the disabled, if it's not done at a societal level? Retirement also benefits the young/middle aged by ensuring jobs open up.

I think the older generation should give way to the younger generation. After all, it is the younger generation that is required to run the world while the older retires. However, as it is currently, the older generation is robbing the younger generation. The younger generation is paying for entitlements that it knows it will never receive. That is not sustainable, fair, or in my opinion: necessary. It should not be…

It's not a retirement fund and was never intended to be. Social Security was always envisioned as a social safety net to provide enough support to elderly people to keep them off the streets and fed, nothing more.

Re: Americans Are Putting Billions More Than Usual in Their 401(k)s

#332

Post by djrogers »

chrisabrams wrote: post #269

Am I the only one that is scared of 401ks? It sounds nice: put your money into an account tax-free, let it grow tax free over 30-40 years. When you retire, you have this nice large fund to pull money from. My biggest fear is that in 30-40 years the US government and/or 401k funds are so poorly run that they tax 50/60/70% of the income (withdrawals) out of the 401k to sustain theirselves. Lots of people tell me "that…

You don't quite understand 401ks. You can choose either contribute tax free (traditional) or have tax-free growth (Roth). You can't do both in the same account.

This doesn't change the fact that the rules may be changed at some point, but given the ridiculously low limits on 401k contributions anyway you might as well put some money in one. Worst case scenario is you wind up paying taxes on t anyway, but then again you might not.

No matter how you slice it you won't wind up paying more taxes than you will if you pay them now and invest without any tax sheltering.

Re: Americans Are Putting Billions More Than Usual in Their 401(k)s

#333

Post by [deleted] »

Frondo wrote: post #244
Frondo wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social security is not a Ponzi scheme. http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2014/sep/24/car...

Wow, downvoters! Seriously, just google "is social security a pyramid scheme". You'll find a LOT of breathless articles from personal blogs and sites like World Net Daily calling it a pyramid scheme. You'll also find a lot of, for lack of a better way to put it, content of actual substance that describes how it's not a pyramid scheme, but a sustainable government program that's worked out just fine for decades (with…

[deleted]

Re: Americans Are Putting Billions More Than Usual in Their 401(k)s

#334

Post by [deleted] »

jellicle wrote: post #256
toomuchtodo wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of decisions in life are arbitrary, or based on fuzzy moral standings.

The U.S. should move to a political system where coastal city-dwelling individuals have 4x the voting power of people who live inland and in rural areas.

[deleted]

Re: Americans Are Putting Billions More Than Usual in Their 401(k)s

#335

Post by vkou »

readams wrote: post #252
awinder wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is almost too ridiculously misinformed a statement to even justify replying to, but since it's easy enough, the SS trust funds earn interest through investment as necessitated by law. They've also been used as an intergovernmental loan vehicle, acting to keep gov't debt lower than it would otherwise have been. It's not a Ponzi scheme.

The trust fund is an accounting fiction. Social Security is paid out entirely by proceeds from people paying into the system. If ever the number of new people paying in is not enough to cover the outflows, then the system collapses. That is how a Ponzi scheme works.

Or, the inflows are increased, or the outflows are decreased. All of which can be done with a stroke of a pen.

If, for instance, we get rid of the contribution cap tomorrow, Social Security becomes 100% funded - in perpetuity.

Madoff was in no position to do so. Congress is.

Re: Americans Are Putting Billions More Than Usual in Their 401(k)s

#336

Post by djrogers »

uiri wrote: post #322
ryandrake wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are still pretty high limits, well above the median tech salary even in the Bay Area. If you're in "income phase out" territory you're probably not worried about your retirement. The thing I don't like about Roth is that you're contributing with post-tax money during your prime working years--the time when your taxes are probably as high as they will ever be. Especially true as a tech worker where your salary p…

Adjusted gross income includes things like bonus and RSUs vested during the tax year, no? If that is the case then anyone starting straight out of college at a large tech company (Google, Facebook, Apple, etc.) will likely be above the phase out limits. EDIT: Specify vested RSUs per reply below.

> Adjusted gross income includes things like bonus and RSUs, no?

It doesn't include RSUs while they're only in paper - they get counted when you actually sell the stock and can spend the money.

Re: Americans Are Putting Billions More Than Usual in Their 401(k)s

#337

Post by cmurf »

Frondo wrote: post #244
Frondo wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social security is not a Ponzi scheme. http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2014/sep/24/car...

Wow, downvoters! Seriously, just google "is social security a pyramid scheme". You'll find a LOT of breathless articles from personal blogs and sites like World Net Daily calling it a pyramid scheme. You'll also find a lot of, for lack of a better way to put it, content of actual substance that describes how it's not a pyramid scheme, but a sustainable government program that's worked out just fine for decades (with…

You mean wnd.com? World Net Daily? The crackpot website?

Re: Americans Are Putting Billions More Than Usual in Their 401(k)s

#338

Post by djrogers »

brewdad wrote: post #191
ryandrake wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are still pretty high limits, well above the median tech salary even in the Bay Area. If you're in "income phase out" territory you're probably not worried about your retirement. The thing I don't like about Roth is that you're contributing with post-tax money during your prime working years--the time when your taxes are probably as high as they will ever be. Especially true as a tech worker where your salary p…

My issue with the Roth is that I don't trust the rules to remain the same in the future. I pay taxes now, before the money goes in, with the promise of tax-free withdrawals. I fully expect that money to become taxable on the back-end at some future time. It might be a lower rate (like capital gains today) or be income-based, but that pot of $ will be too tempting to ignore, I fear.

So worst case scenario is that you wind up paying the taxes you'd have paid if you didn't use the Roth? Not really a reason to not use one when it's only a possibility and not a certainty.

Re: Americans Are Putting Billions More Than Usual in Their 401(k)s

#339

Post by djrogers »

h4nkoslo wrote: post #99
rpais wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get around this by contributing to a traditional IRA and then converting it to a Roth. This is easy to do (until law changes) unless you have an existing traditional IRA where you can take a tax hit.

... And you can roll your trad IRA into your company 401K before doing the backdoor Roth, thus avoiding the tax hit.

No - no you can't. Someone has given you some odd and confusing advice.

Re: Americans Are Putting Billions More Than Usual in Their 401(k)s

#340

Post by Frondo »

cmurf wrote: post #337
Frondo wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, downvoters! Seriously, just google "is social security a pyramid scheme". You'll find a LOT of breathless articles from personal blogs and sites like World Net Daily calling it a pyramid scheme. You'll also find a lot of, for lack of a better way to put it, content of actual substance that describes how it's not a pyramid scheme, but a sustainable government program that's worked out just fine for decades (with…

You mean wnd.com? World Net Daily? The crackpot website?

Yes, thank you, edited.
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