Goodbye to GNU Libreboot • Hacker News Board

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#71

Post by gkya » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 7:49 PM UTC

ben0x539 wrote: post #28

maglavaitss wrote: post #16

All due respect for Leah Rowe and her work on libreboot, but this kind of drama only hurts the OpenSource (regardless of the name you like to use) initiative. Stallman did the right thing I guess.

I don't think it's fair to lay the blame for the drama at her feet. The FSF could have handled this more professionally from the beginning.

When you get your project into GNU, you practically transfer the ownership and become a maintainer only. Maintainers come and maintainers go, GNU tries to ensure that projects live on when staff changes. GNU projects thus belong to the community and their fate should not be left to the whims of the individuals.

In this case though it's nice that the project is detached given it's not all that important and does not worth the burden.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#72

Post by hhjkjhkjhhlkj » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 7:51 PM UTC

dijit wrote: post #4

Context: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/54agii/richard_stall... Original email that sparked the controversy: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036...

Those emails look sent drunk or angry.

The first one does not look like it was proof read. I don't always proof read everything, but important ones I don't leave with an obvious typo.

Anyhow free software will carry on.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#73

Post by amyjess » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 7:58 PM UTC

discordianfish wrote: post #48

_pfxa wrote: post #30

This is from http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036... LR> I'm declaring here and now to the whole world that Libreboot is no longer LR> part of the GNU project. I do not believe that the FSF or the GNU project LR> deserve to exist. Mistakes are everywhere and are done by everybody. A mistake was done by some people in FSF, the reaction is exaggerated to say the least. Furthermore, it's not clea…

> Whatever the case is, even though I know null about the project, I can easily say that Leah Rowe, whoever she might be, is apparently toxic for the project. So you don't know anything about the project beside that their main/core maintainer accuses GNU project to have fired a trans person and therefor she doesn't want to work there anymore. Call me SJW or Gutmensch but if that makes you 'easily say' that she is 'ap…

Leah outed a stealth trans woman as part of her crusade. She's hurt that person far more than the FSF ever did.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#74

Post by digi_owl » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 7:59 PM UTC

davexunit wrote: post #20

debatem1 wrote: post #19

So, is there any truth to the accusations of discrimination and harassment over at FSF? Either way this kind of drama would seem par for the course for people who view software development through political and philosophical lenses, but from a practical perspective it makes her mic drop seem a lot more noble if she's right.

>Either way this kind of drama would seem par for the course for people who view software development through political and philosophical lenses If you are a software developer and don't think about the social impact of what you do then you're being irresponsible.

Yes and no. Libreboot in this instance seems have crap all to do with the issue, expect being used as leverage for one individual in the dustup.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#75

Post by vertex-four » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 8:08 PM UTC

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #68

discordianfish wrote: post #39

Looking at how one-sided the discussion here but especially on reddit is should be worrying. Not saying it's the case, we all don't know, but if the accusations are right, it's absolutely reasonable to not want to work with these people. You can say all you want about being professional and not having politics influence your technical decisions, but that's easy to say if it's not your life style choices that are disc…

>but if the accusations are right, it's absolutely reasonable to not want to work with these people. At this point, that's a big if. In any case, I do a lot of gaming, so my perspective may be warped here, but I would blame Reddit's one-sidedness on KotakuInAction/GamerGate. After people like Anita Sarkeesian and that particular kerfuffle, anybody involved in that scene (even tangentially) is going to want very stron…

To be fair, the accusations have never been about persecuting on race and/or gender in such a strict sense - they're basically about the FSF deciding they didn't want the hassle of employing somebody who some other employees were harassing on the basis of gender identity.

Note that this doesn't require that the people who fired her are bigots so to speak - you can fully empathise with someone and still decide that it's easier/cheaper for the company to fire them than to deal with the problem, and without strong worker protections, that's possibly a perfectly rational thing to do. The FSF isn't particularly special in regards to the rights of minority groups and I'd expect it to behave the same as many organisations of a similar size. But the result is an organisation which tends heavily towards discrimination against people outside the cultural norm (who're more likely to be targeted and harassed, and so cost additional time/money/risk to employ), and that's something some people feel quite strongly should be fought against.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#76

Post by laumars » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 8:28 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #47

_pfxa wrote: post #30

This is from http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036... LR> I'm declaring here and now to the whole world that Libreboot is no longer LR> part of the GNU project. I do not believe that the FSF or the GNU project LR> deserve to exist. Mistakes are everywhere and are done by everybody. A mistake was done by some people in FSF, the reaction is exaggerated to say the least. Furthermore, it's not clea…

It's very difficult to classify people by e-mails. I worked with so many people who were very nice to me. We'd discuss requirements. I'd even type up timelines and e-mail them docs. Next day, a thread with every manager in the planet saying our team was stonewalling everything, being unhelpful, etc. etc. My boss would come up to my cube and say, "Stop e-mailing these people! Why are you e-mailing them? Pick up the ph…

In one of her latter posts she confesses that the person who was fired was a close friend of hers. So I think this is a case of her being too close to the subject matter to be objective. In fact I think she came to realise this herself but not until it was too late for her and the project:

https://libreboot.org/gnu/#leah-not-a-hero

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#77

Post by kstrauser » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 8:50 PM UTC

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #12

E-drama aside, this is probably for the better, given the following: - The developer has sole commit rights against the repo and hence no further would could be done on it without forking. - The developer's continued trashing of the FSF poisoned the well for any number of people who might have wanted to work on Libreboot, GNU-version or otherwise. The fact is, no one wants to be part of a "contentious" fork. It's a p…

I have mixed feelings. Yes, good on RMS for taking the high road and putting an end to this. On the other hand, it sets the precedent that screaming gets results. I don't like that, even in cases where I agree with the screaming.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#78

Post by linkmotif » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 9:04 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #47

_pfxa wrote: post #30

This is from http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036... LR> I'm declaring here and now to the whole world that Libreboot is no longer LR> part of the GNU project. I do not believe that the FSF or the GNU project LR> deserve to exist. Mistakes are everywhere and are done by everybody. A mistake was done by some people in FSF, the reaction is exaggerated to say the least. Furthermore, it's not clea…

It's very difficult to classify people by e-mails. I worked with so many people who were very nice to me. We'd discuss requirements. I'd even type up timelines and e-mail them docs. Next day, a thread with every manager in the planet saying our team was stonewalling everything, being unhelpful, etc. etc. My boss would come up to my cube and say, "Stop e-mailing these people! Why are you e-mailing them? Pick up the ph…

Lol "pessimism is the cure for anger".

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#79

Post by yuhong » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 9:06 PM UTC

Personally I think the FSF ideology taken too far is pretty ridiculous anyway.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#80

Post by sctb » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 9:10 PM UTC

pierre_d528 wrote: post #32

Stallman uses his freedom of speech to the fullest! ==== 31 October 2016 (Down's syndrome) A new noninvasive test for Down's syndrome will eliminate the small risk of the current test. This might lead more women to get tested, and abort fetuses that have Down's syndrome. Let's hope so! If you'd like to love and care for a pet that doesn't have normal human mental capacity, don't create a handicapped human being to be…

I don't understand what you've posting here, but when users flag something, please don't create a new account just to post it again. We ban accounts that behave like this on HN.