Learning to code at 56 • Hacker News Board

Re: Learning to code at 56

#91

Post by conistonwater » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 5:38 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #88

conistonwater wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical of arguments based on neuroplasticity or learning styles for the following reason. Given how good people are at learning in general (it is the evolutionary advantage that humans have), it would in fact be extremely surprising if there was anything short of an illness that shut down somebody's ability to learn things. Thus ability to learn things, even when one is older, doesn't need an explanation, wher…

There's definitely research that suggests our ability to learn some things, like verbal languages, slows down with age --- though I wasn't able to find a cite for whether that decline is gradual or whether there's some inflection at adulthood. Either way, I'd just caution that we not automatically extrapolate from those findings to the broader claim that every new skill acquisition is similarly impacted.

Aren't languages really special, though? I remember reading one's ability to learn even new sounds almost vanishes, which explains many people's accents, and which means it's more like a separate process in the brain. Coding, on the other hand, is a general, abstract skill. So I'd expect ability to learn coding to drop off at roughly the same rate as everything else with age. I think it's one of those things where there is a small negative effect, but it's so small that even if you knew about it, you'd still have many much more important things to think about and so you'd be right to ignore it.

Re: Learning to code at 56

#92

Post by justinzollars » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 5:39 PM UTC

When I was an undergraduate, my major professor said that the average man dies at 22 and is buried at 65. Congratulations on never stopping to learn.

Re: Learning to code at 56

#93

Post by brudgers » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 5:40 PM UTC

beachstartup wrote: post #52

beat wrote: post #39

At 51, I've noticed there are really two kinds of people at my age... people who are completely beaten, and people who are winning. Once you hit 40 or so, the scope of mortality really hits you. You realize that you've probably already had half your productive life, maybe half a career. You start seeing peers die of "old age" - heart attacks and strokes and stuff. For most, they're beaten, defeated. They decide this…

part of the problem is by the time you're 50, you've had 30 years of adult life to accumulate bad decisions. a lot of people are saddled with obligations they never actually wanted. :(

And 50 years to accumulate bad luck...though, being alive at 50 is mostly a matter of good luck and reasonably sound decisions.

Re: Learning to code at 56

#94

Post by soneca » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 5:40 PM UTC

thght wrote: post #75

Please don't go the web developer (javascript) path; node, react, webpack, etc.. It will drive you nuts, things keep changing radically in a very high pace and can take quite some time before you feel comfortable in this crazy field. I would choose python, ruby(or crystal), c++, c#, etc.. and stay away from the browser, unless you have a very good reason to write for that.

I am not the author, but I'm in the exact same situation (except I'm 37). And I am following the javascript path. It seems employable, interesting and, not hard.

I know it is a bet, I'm betting in React and if in two years it is old news, I will have to move on. But until then, I am employable.

I am very early in my learning path (started from scracth last November), but I have a very clear impression that it is easier to learn Javascript than any of the languages you mentioned.

Would you care to elaborate more your point? It would help me a lot.

thanks!

Re: Learning to code at 56

#95

Post by brudgers » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 5:45 PM UTC

grok2 wrote: post #28

webwanderings wrote: post #8

This appears to be an Ad for free code camp (not that there's anything wrong with that). Just ten years younger in a similar boat, I'm neither taking a boot camp, nor writing about my "CIS". To each their own. Learning is a life long activity. It shouldn't matter what one learns at any age.

Perhaps it really is an ad, but if it is real, I am impressed that the person thinks at 56, he has enough runway in life to make a serious contribution by coding :-)...I like that attitude.

It's not unrealistic to suspect that at age 56 someone could code for 25 years or more. Retirement is more and more of a myth anyway these days...I mean social security ain't going to pay for a condo overlooking the 7th fairway and trips to Europe.

Re: Learning to code at 56

#96

Post by brudgers » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 5:47 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #82

beat wrote: post #39

At 51, I've noticed there are really two kinds of people at my age... people who are completely beaten, and people who are winning. Once you hit 40 or so, the scope of mortality really hits you. You realize that you've probably already had half your productive life, maybe half a career. You start seeing peers die of "old age" - heart attacks and strokes and stuff. For most, they're beaten, defeated. They decide this…

What I really enjoy about being 51 is being able to understand both extremes you describe -- as well as being able to understand and remember what many other segments of life was like. It gives you quite a broad view! At times it feels like standing on a mountain and seeing a vast landscape that you've crossed to get here -- and the mountain path ahead that leads to new heights. There's also the joy of playing to typ…

At 51, I've learned to enjoy the fact that there are about as many different kinds of people in the world as there are people. A surprisingly vast number of them are surprisingly intelligent if I am just willing to listen and learn and have an open mind.

Anyway, getting older tends to beat the alternatives.

Re: Learning to code at 56

#97

Post by madenine » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 5:49 PM UTC

innocentoldguy wrote: post #40

mfukar wrote: post #4

bootcamps - the best way of driving both wages and software quality down

> bootcamps - the best way of driving both wages and software quality down I'm not sure that's true, other than the obvious issue of supply vs. demand, where wages are concerned. As for quality, I've worked with college-trained programmers who wrote awful code, and I've worked with self-taught programmers who wrote amazing code. Some of the best programmers I've ever worked with were self-taught. I never attended a b…

Nailed it with the two types of people.

In my experience, a lot of it came down to how people approached the program. It was either:

"I have n weeks to learn as much as I can in order to catch up and be competitive with people with formal education and more experience"

or

"In n weeks I will have the skills needed to get a job in this field"

Most of the complaining about the program came from the 2nd group. People in the 1st group got better jobs, faster.

Re: Learning to code at 56

#98

Post by blubb-fish » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 5:55 PM UTC

beachstartup wrote: post #77

blubb-fish wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life as an adult is fundamentally and naturally about responsebilites and obligations - and most men no longer are able to cope with those because they bought into the illusion of life long youth - aka Peter Pan syndrome.

no, i think you have it backwards. the men who are 50 something right now dove headlong into family+salary+mortgage at an early age, possibly against their true desires, and many of them are feeling the negative effects of that. peter pan syndrome means you never actually did anything with your life (positive or negative), not that you've been beaten down by it. how can you be beaten down by nothing?

whether you feel good or bad about your life depends 90% on personal and subjective perception. And this perception is almost 100% determined by the surrounding society. The other 10% are health facts.

Take a man who is somewhat wealthy in India and place him into San Francisco while conserving the living conditions - he will feel poor and inferior.

Or one of those guys who feel betrayed by the US government and hence voted for Trump - their living standard is most likely superior to that of a (very happy) king in ancient Egypt.

Today's 50 y/o men are influenced by what media communicates - and that is essentially a message conveying a hedonistic and materialistic lifestyle.

Those guys feel bad b/c they don't look as ripped as some Hollywood actor, their spouse not as hot as some chick on a magazine, they can't buy that car b/c their children are expensive etc.

Mature men and women consume less - and our society is built on consumption.

Re: Learning to code at 56

#99

Post by tps5 » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 5:59 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #39

At 51, I've noticed there are really two kinds of people at my age... people who are completely beaten, and people who are winning. Once you hit 40 or so, the scope of mortality really hits you. You realize that you've probably already had half your productive life, maybe half a career. You start seeing peers die of "old age" - heart attacks and strokes and stuff. For most, they're beaten, defeated. They decide this…

At 24, I've noticed there are really two kinds of people in the world: those who think there are two kinds of people in the world and those that don't.

Re: Learning to code at 56

#100

Post by wccrawford » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 6:01 PM UTC

soneca wrote: post #94

thght wrote: post #75

Please don't go the web developer (javascript) path; node, react, webpack, etc.. It will drive you nuts, things keep changing radically in a very high pace and can take quite some time before you feel comfortable in this crazy field. I would choose python, ruby(or crystal), c++, c#, etc.. and stay away from the browser, unless you have a very good reason to write for that.

I am not the author, but I'm in the exact same situation (except I'm 37). And I am following the javascript path. It seems employable, interesting and, not hard. I know it is a bet, I'm betting in React and if in two years it is old news, I will have to move on. But until then, I am employable. I am very early in my learning path (started from scracth last November), but I have a very clear impression that it is easi…

I wouldn't necessarily say that JS is easier to learn than those other languages, but I think it's easier to be productive in it.

If you use one of those other languages with the web, people are going to want you to use Javascript anyhow. So you have to learn both, unless you only do very, very basic things.

If you use one of those languages without doing web-stuff... Ugh. Maybe some phone apps line Swift or Java might be do-able, but I dunno about productivity for a long time.

On the other hand, it's not that hard to get good enough with Javascript to build some nice usable websites and get paid. IMO it's by far the shortest path to a programming career, and that will help get good enough to learn other languages and spread out while earning income.