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I've removed all ad network code from my blog

troyhunt.com

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Re: I've removed all ad network code from my blog

#81

Post by nickpsecurity »

bazillion wrote: post #41
fiatjaf wrote: post #4

Ok, you have a sponsorship model that works because you're probably very famous. That doesn't solve anyone's problem, because almost no one is famous. How can we replace ad networks with something better and saner?

I built what I believe to be the most sane way to "advertise" something: Let people buy directly from an image. This solves the problem of people not interested in the content, because of its unobtrusive nature -- if they don't hover over an item within the image, it's as if the "advertisement" isn't there. Check out my demo (desktop only) at http://www.worldlifestyle.com/testpost My website which you can sign up for…

After allowing 23 scripts in NoScript, I still don't see anything but a mix of static and animated images. That's not typical in either number of scripts (huge) or brokenness. Attention-grabbing content but execution needs work.

The "How It Works" on second link is well-done where I can see exactly what it's supposed to do. The feature itself is nice.

Re: I've removed all ad network code from my blog

#82

Post by sirclueless »

yoz-y wrote: post #44
blauditore wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you describe sounds similar to affiliate marketing [1]: Post a link to external services and get commission for clicks (maybe depending on conversion). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_marketing

But in the case of affiliate marketing you get the links and as content creator you create the ad copy. What I was thinking was kind of an automation of these kind of posts: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/12/23/storyworth Or some other way to deliver ads with copy and images, but through the backend. (that way the website author has complete power on what an ad actually can do on their website)

Affiliates work fine for E-commerce and performance advertisers that can track conversions. They work considerably less well for cost-per-click advertisers and brand advertisers because the advertisers can't trust the publishers either; there are plenty of spammy publishers who will send fake clicks and impressions your way for $$.

This is the major reason ad networks put JS on publisher sites. You can't give a website author "complete power" any more than you can give an advertiser complete power.

Re: I've removed all ad network code from my blog

#83

Post by mamcx »

coldpie wrote: post #61
JStanton617 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what an ad network is

Yeah. The problem with current ad networks is twofold. One is advertisers require metrics, metrics require some form of tracking or JS, and advertisers don't trust the ad networks to give accurate metrics, so they require the ability to embed their own JS. This is where you get the app store redirects and malware. Two, ad networks are scummy as shit and don't do any auditing so long as advertisers are willing to pay.…

Let's imagine that not all the advertisers are that shady, and just don't know better. Or if I wish to serve a subset of them, how break into this business? How get the first batch of customers?

I have some ideas about build a server-side ad-network, but because I imagine is very hard to get customers I dismiss it, for the same reason: You need to be "famous/large" to attract customer in the ad-space.

Re: I've removed all ad network code from my blog

#84

Post by AndrewStephens »

I went a step further and designed my blog (https://sheep.horse/) not to use any third-party resources at all. This was easy for me because I am never going to make money from my ramblings about Rogue One or the last book I read.

I am actually not against advertising in principle, or even tracking if that is what you want, but the current trend to pull in lots of resources (ads, tracking scripts, web fonts, CDN javascript libraries) from third parties scares me.

When you serve a page to a user, you are responsible (morally and legally) for what happens on the user's computer. Ad network serves up malicious code? Your fault. Tracker places cookie on user's machine even if your privacy policy says you won't? Your fault. New version of that CDN'ed Javascript library does something you don't expect? Your fault.

I wish more sites would arrange their own advertising like this guy, but I imagine it is a pain in the neck.

[edit] I wrote a post expanding on this idea: https://sheep.horse/2016/6/a_website_manifesto_-_introducing...

Re: I've removed all ad network code from my blog

#85

Post by Grue3 »

pweissbrod wrote: post #3

The advertisement he refers to was a plain text bar at the top of the page with no tracking nor any distracting visuals. And when you scroll down into the article it disappears. I dont see any problem with this kind of innocent unobtrusive level of advertising and frankly wish he kept it for his own financial gain and others used it as a model.

And I didn't even notice it before I saw the screenshot in the blog post that shows how it should look like. I scrolled back to the top, and there it was! The click through rates on that thing are probably terrible.

Re: I've removed all ad network code from my blog

#86

Post by dustinmoris »

dbg31415 wrote: post #45
ambirex wrote: post #10

Except that he is still using Disqus, which is free to use because they have moved to ad supported model (for the most part). Even if he isn't running the ads, they are using the script to track users across sites and then feeding that into ad networks.

An alternative to Disqus. * Discourse || https://www.discourse.org/ * Embedding Discourse Comments via Javascript - howto - Discourse Meta || https://meta.discourse.org/t/embedding-discourse-comments-vi... EDIT: Love the instant downvotes without any comments on why. Downvotes are totally helpful and not the least bit petty and stupid. I have 2 client using Discourse on their production sites and it works great.

Didn't down vote you, but I very much dislike Discourse. It is sold to be a better forum/discussion system, but it feels very unpleasant to use. They tried to break things just for the sake of breaking. Like having an endless scroll instead of paging is driving me nuts. I hate endless scroll, this is the most anti pattern that exists on the web probably.

Re: I've removed all ad network code from my blog

#87

Post by coldpie »

mamcx wrote: post #83
coldpie wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. The problem with current ad networks is twofold. One is advertisers require metrics, metrics require some form of tracking or JS, and advertisers don't trust the ad networks to give accurate metrics, so they require the ability to embed their own JS. This is where you get the app store redirects and malware. Two, ad networks are scummy as shit and don't do any auditing so long as advertisers are willing to pay.…

Let's imagine that not all the advertisers are that shady, and just don't know better. Or if I wish to serve a subset of them, how break into this business? How get the first batch of customers? I have some ideas about build a server-side ad-network, but because I imagine is very hard to get customers I dismiss it, for the same reason: You need to be "famous/large" to attract customer in the ad-space.

Some exist already, you may gain inspiration from them. Project Wonderful is one I know about. There was some guy on here a year ago claiming to have an ethical ad network, but when I visited his client sites, it was mostly "Click Here to win a Free iPod" scams. I think you're right, it'd take a lot of work to find both clients and advertisers interested in working with you given your ethics-inspired limitations.

Edit: The other problem you'll run into is the tragedy issue I mentioned. Your ads will be blocked by most ad-blockers' scorched-Earth policy, which comes from your shitty, unethical competitors. Good luck to ya ;)

Re: I've removed all ad network code from my blog

#90

Post by phkahler »

He says ad blockers are part of the problem, and yet he's effectively doing ad-blocking on his end too. Ad blockers prevent the kind of stuff he doesn't like from getting in on the client side, he's manually rejected them on the server side. Notice that his "sponsorship" banners are not going to be blocked by ad blockers.

There are two fundamental problems that gave rise to the ad networks: 1) Scale - nobody wants to have humans involved in bringing in ads. and 2) Fraud - Nobody wants to pay for ads that aren't actually seen by a human, this has even escalated to "clicked by a human".

I worked briefly for a company that did auditing of print and television ads. The agents (I'm not sure the correct term) would arrange for an ad to run in the paper, on TV, or whatever. Money would be set aside in an escrow for that ad and one of this companies people would verify that the ad ran before the money could go through. The whole business seems to be base on a lack of trust. The ad-man might try to divert funds from his ad budget to somewhere else, the paper or TV station might collect money and never run the ad. You could say it was all just "verification" but it's based on distrust.

One step toward relieving ad fraud on the internet is to eliminate anonymity by default so you'd know where clicks are coming from for example (I'm still in favor of anonymization in many cases, but you'd know it's in effect).

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