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I’m Joining LinkedIn

tomdale.net

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Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#151

Post by pimeys »

throwaway7767 wrote: post #135
Desustorm wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of interest, why are they scum? Never heard this before about LinkedIn.

Where to start? * They steal the address book of any user who installs their app, collecting private information of people who have given no such consent * They then proceed to create shadow profiles of all those people that haven't registered, creating the illusion that more people are on LinkedIn than really are (not sure if they still do this) * They then start spamming all those contacts with multiple emails per…

After writing my own comment and reading the others in this thread, I actually realized I gain nothing from LinkedIn and deleted my account.

From now on I will only use my personal network and services I have more respect, like SO Jobs, if I have a need for new opportunities.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#152

Post by scaryclam »

andylei wrote: post #101
kethinov wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I have observed it. I've worked on many projects that used one of the big frameworks (including Ember.js projects) that would've been better off with vanilla JS and a collection of small JS libraries instead. I'm not going to name names, but they're out there. It's a tool that does get misused, like any other.

yes, but there are plenty of projects that would not be better off with vanilla js

And there are also plenty that would be better without any js at all

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#153

Post by citruspi »

darfs wrote: post #116
citruspi wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but fiatjaf is saying that Tom Dale (one of the creators of Ember.js) believes that React is better than Ember in every scenario, not the opposite. That's the part that doesn't make sense.

I think it's about he thinks that Dale believes. And thats based on the opinion that React is the best in everything that Ember could do.. If Dale Said it otherwise, im sorry. Its all about opinions Here :-/

Yeah, but the point is that he's conjecturing and doesn't provide any source. If anything, I'd imagine Tom Dale believes that Ember is better than React in some, if not all, ways given that he's... one of the co-founders.

fiatjaf is literally saying[0]:

> React cane out after Ember, and conquered the hearts of many many JS developers. Why couldn't Tom Dale be one of them?

And it's fine to wonder that, but he states it in the original comment as if it's a definite thing without providing a source.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13325643

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#154

Post by jit_hacker »

LOL. I love how full of his own crap Tom Dale has become.

Ember is a good framework with a lot of potential, but more than anything it needs a good PM. Ember devs just spent nearly 14 months rewriting the layout engine (Glimmer 2.0) that they had spent the prior 8 months writing (Glimmer). And what do they have to show for it? A 100ms or so speed boost on complex views. Instead they should focus on fixing up the crufty parts of their API and adding feature they've been promising users for years. Instead Tom Dale has been off writing FastBoot, an even more niche component of Ember that very few apps will even use.

React and Angular are far from perfect, but one upside is they have parent companies to help keep them focused.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#155

Post by zackthehuman »

kethinov wrote: post #100
jeanlucas wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've been observing these trends for years and what I'm seeing is this: ever since these new thick client JS frameworks became so trendy, web performance has dramatically decreased, not increased. I am in the Emberjs community, I do not observe this in that framework.

Well I have observed it. I've worked on many projects that used one of the big frameworks (including Ember.js projects) that would've been better off with vanilla JS and a collection of small JS libraries instead. I'm not going to name names, but they're out there. It's a tool that does get misused, like any other.

Recent releases of Ember actually reduced the output size (sometimes in the high double-digit percent) and Glimmer 2 improved rendering performance. Sometimes the needle moves back after work internal to the framework.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#156

Post by zackthehuman »

jit_hacker wrote: post #154

LOL. I love how full of his own crap Tom Dale has become. Ember is a good framework with a lot of potential, but more than anything it needs a good PM. Ember devs just spent nearly 14 months rewriting the layout engine (Glimmer 2.0) that they had spent the prior 8 months writing (Glimmer). And what do they have to show for it? A 100ms or so speed boost on complex views. Instead they should focus on fixing up the cruf…

Having worked on Glimmer 2 myself, I don't think it's accurate to say that Ember devs worked on it for 14 months (that is, it took 14 months of work to same 100ms). It had initial work done for a long time and then it sat for a while unchanged because it's an open-source project that people work on when they have time. Month later work started up again to get it out the door.

I think that since LinkedIn is "all in" on Ember it will help to get some of the cruft removed and things moving forward. LinkedIn has probably the largest and most complex Ember app in existence, so there are a lot of learnings to take an use to improve the framework and ecosystem.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#157

Post by Silhouette »

kethinov wrote: post #51

> Perhaps you can write a tiny web app that loads instantly and still retains a full set of features, but most of the world cannot. I've long been skeptical of this line of thinking emanating from major thick client JS framework authors. I think they underestimate what people are capable of. > Over time, Ember will become like gcc -O3 for web apps, intelligently optimizing them and delivering them as fast as possible…

>> Perhaps you can write a tiny web app that loads instantly and still retains a full set of features, but most of the world cannot.

> I've long been skeptical of this line of thinking emanating from major thick client JS framework authors. I think they underestimate what people are capable of.

I am also skeptical, but for a slightly different reason.

I believe the original statement from the article is true today.

I also believe things would be very different if the same web developers we have today spent less time learning new frameworks every five minutes and more time learning the fundamentals of the underlying technologies (JS, HTTP, and so on), broader skills like programming and UI design, and more professional practices like standardisation and backward and forward compatibility.

So many tools in web development today are merely papering over the cracks that other tools unwittingly created in the first place. The advocacy of using these kinds of tools to be more future-proof or standardised than building with solid fundamentals is one of the greatest ironies in programming history.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#158

Post by jit_hacker »

zackthehuman wrote: post #156
jit_hacker wrote: post #154

LOL. I love how full of his own crap Tom Dale has become. Ember is a good framework with a lot of potential, but more than anything it needs a good PM. Ember devs just spent nearly 14 months rewriting the layout engine (Glimmer 2.0) that they had spent the prior 8 months writing (Glimmer). And what do they have to show for it? A 100ms or so speed boost on complex views. Instead they should focus on fixing up the cruf…

Having worked on Glimmer 2 myself, I don't think it's accurate to say that Ember devs worked on it for 14 months (that is, it took 14 months of work to same 100ms). It had initial work done for a long time and then it sat for a while unchanged because it's an open-source project that people work on when they have time. Month later work started up again to get it out the door. I think that since LinkedIn is "all in" o…

Well the Glimmer 2.0 effort started around the same time Ember 2.0 shipped (Aug 2015). That was 16 months ago, Glimmer 2.0 shipped about 2 months ago, ergo 14 months. I agree that it wasn't under development the entire time, but it was a blocker for many other features the entire time.

Basically when 2.0 landed, routable components couldn't be worked on until glimmer components were completed. Angle brackets, Improved Pods, etc, same.

So even if it wasn't under dev that whole time, it held back other features that would have really improved Ember.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#159

Post by luketheobscure »

ffn wrote: post #26

> Joining LinkedIn Great, I'm glad Ember is gaining more traction in enterprise... but what does this mean for things like Fastboot, Ember 3.0, glimmer 2.0, ember-cli 3.0, and the whole cast of in-room-elephants such as ember-redux, flexi, ember-data, vr, etc.?

I don't think there's any "in-room elephants":

- Glimmer 2: Shipped

- Ember/CLI 3.x: Haven't heard anything, but there's not really any features that have been pushed to those versions that I know of. Glimmer 2 was the big roadblock for routable components, which is the feature we're most waiting for.

- Ember Redux: Was not particularly liked by a lot of the core team (from an API perspective), but the ideas it represented were. They're exploring ways to implement this in Ember.

- Ember Data: LinkedIn hired "runspired" and tasked him with improving Ember Data performance. His work will ship with the next version (last version had his initial work which revolved mostly around tooling)

- Flexi: Was never really a core Ember project, and I don't think it was widely adopted. It was a runspired thing, and I think he's being kept busy on other stuff (core projects and smoke & mirrors)

I don't use fastboot so I can't comment there, but I see new versions coming out regularly. I also don't know what "vr" refers to.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#160

Post by dbbk »

jamies888888 wrote: post #113

Who signs off moving huge, billion dollar companies onto immature, "hip" JavaScript frameworks? I don't get it. It's too niche. It's too risky. How are you expected to make hires for specialists in such a niche technology which may or may not be here in a few years? Do they just hire good JavaScript developers and train them for Ember? And also tell them they may have to retrain in another framework in a couple of ye…

> Do they just hire good JavaScript developers and train them for Ember?

There is really not a whole lot of Ember-specific training you need to go through. A good JavaScript developer would just have to read through the guides once to grasp its concepts.

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