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I’m Joining LinkedIn

tomdale.net

131–140 of 172 posts

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#131
post #78
post #13

Lots of flagged comments, I suppose because of short quips related to the sleazy things LinkedIn has done in the past. I'm sure he's not unaware of those things. I wonder if he's thinking he may be able to influence them? Discourage dark patterns? Discourage the current mobile experience that's broken unless you download the app and/or log in?

Sleazy things in the past? In the past as in last month, when I got one yet ANOTHER of those endless "I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn" spams? As in last year, when LinkedIn's site was hacked and 6.5 million passwords dropped on the Internet, yet according to Vice, "LinkedIn never clarified how many users were affected by that breach" (turns out, about 18 times the reported number) https://m…

For some reason Linkedin spams me a little less, or maybe the reason is that I unsubscribed from their spam, although I don't remember the last time I logged into linkedin

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#132
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately a lot of us in HN make our living writing thick clients that ultimately perform worse than server-rendered apps with little benefit. It's just too easy to find a front end dev job that pays well, at least where I live.

Maybe you should find any of the websites that profit from faster load times and argue the business value. Because that's most of the places.

I've suggested just that at multiple companies, and even if the business value was acknowledged, the usual (informal) response boiled down to "it won't impress my boss as much as new feature , and there's no reason for me to argue with them about this".

And so we'd put another ad somewhere on the page to increase revenue, instead of decreasing the page load time down from 5-10 seconds with some truly trivial low-hanging fruit type adjustments (lazy-loading anything but the 'core' images, etc.). Or we'd do another redesign. Or add a widget somewhere.

What bothers me most is that these kinds of jobs were generally the highest paying and lowest in stress and 'friction' with the client. And I'd do them, telling myself that with the money I was 'saving up future time', all the while feeling incredibly depressed whenever I came home from work or had a moment to think about the current state of my life.

I always pitied the (shockingly high) number of employees in these companies, predominantly managers, who absolutely hated their jobs and constantly talked about 'one day I'll quit and do ' while never doing it because, well, the money and stability. Ever since I realized I was basically doing the vey same thing, I've been trying a little harder to find a balance between 'saving up'/stability and enjoying my day to day. And in my field that should be possible.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#133

> Perhaps you can write a tiny web app that loads instantly and still retains a full set of features, but most of the world cannot. I've long been skeptical of this line of thinking emanating from major thick client JS framework authors. I think they underestimate what people are capable of. > Over time, Ember will become like gcc -O3 for web apps, intelligently optimizing them and delivering them as fast as possible…

>> Perhaps you can write a tiny web app that loads instantly and still retains a full set of features, but most of the world cannot. > I've long been skeptical of this line of thinking emanating from major thick client JS framework authors. I think they underestimate what people are capable of Sometimes even when you can , you shouldn't. Any reasonably-sized organisation will have churn; new developers will have to r…

Thing is, by the time you have to take back this application for maintenance, chances are high that the then mainstream framework will be outdated, newcomers won't even know it, the doc will have vanished in a poor "let's move to this new shiny TLD", and still the business logic of the application will be vastly undocumented as well.

I was on your side for a long time, but I've come to appreciate a minimalist, simple, well documented in-house framework over a hype-driven "solve-all-the-thing" one, even free and with a currently big community.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#134
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google will hire people who can write good vanilla JS code, not someone who's good at the latest fad js framework. In fact, if you're good at writing vanilla JS, you would probably pick up these frameworks overnight.

Pickup a framework overnight results in shoehorning your current knowledge into the framework and late night rants about how the framework sucks.

I'd say it depends on the framework a lot.

Many frameworks deeply affect how the code is written and have very specific boilerplate, custom templating and such. And some frameworks simply offer means of doing some things in an easier, usually specific, way with the relevant language.

In my experience it is also highly relevant how your thoughts on architecture match up to the framework's. I'd say you can happen to have a solid affinity for the way a framework is thought out. But in general, I'd agree, overnight is generally not sufficient for anything proper :)

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LinkedIn tried to hire me to help with their SaltStack infrastructure several years ago when they were first rolling it out/beefing up their infra with it and I emphatically said no. Even if I like working with the technology I would never work somewhere like LinkedIn, they are scum and working there lowers my opinion of a person.

Out of interest, why are they scum? Never heard this before about LinkedIn.

Where to start?

* They steal the address book of any user who installs their app, collecting private information of people who have given no such consent

* They then proceed to create shadow profiles of all those people that haven't registered, creating the illusion that more people are on LinkedIn than really are (not sure if they still do this)

* They then start spamming all those contacts with multiple emails per day, for several days, asking them to register with LinkedIn. There is no "fuck off and stop emailing me" button, the only way to make it stop is to register for an account

I've blacklisted linkedin.com in my mailservers for this reason. And I would agree with the GP that they are scum and that working there lowers my opinion of a person.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LinkedIn tried to hire me to help with their SaltStack infrastructure several years ago when they were first rolling it out/beefing up their infra with it and I emphatically said no. Even if I like working with the technology I would never work somewhere like LinkedIn, they are scum and working there lowers my opinion of a person.

Out of interest, why are they scum? Never heard this before about LinkedIn.

I would assume it is related to their widespread use of dark UI patterns and general attempts to get your to share e-mail-addresses of everyone you've ever communicated with. Constant badgering with new types of notification emails and generally strange user-hostility.

I use the site but I'm deeply skeptical of the way their business tactics appear in my interactions with the site.

Edit: I would probably meet them for an interview to get a feeling for the company and team, but as a company they start on the minus side for me.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#137
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google will hire people who can write good vanilla JS code, not someone who's good at the latest fad js framework. In fact, if you're good at writing vanilla JS, you would probably pick up these frameworks overnight.

Pickup a framework overnight results in shoehorning your current knowledge into the framework and late night rants about how the framework sucks.

It was a figure of speech! :)

My point was that unless you're a small startup with very specific need for the tech stack you're using, you probably shouldn't be hiring based on whether the candidate knows certain framework, because that can be learned quickly, as long as the developer has solid foundation.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#138
post #28

Is this concerning? https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=ember.js,react.js In any case congrats on the new gig Tom.

I've moved from Ember to React year back. Then over year I've (crappily) recreated Ember.js using React.js and libraries. Ember.js had many strong parts, but also had many issues that pulled it down. Documentation overfocused on explaining concepts but not providing examples of how to solve real issues. New release every six weeks bringing painful deprecations and changes. Lack of realworld apps to look up to for exa…

Maybe the front-end (SPA) ecosystem, both in terms of technology and use-cases, just isn't stable enough for a Rails-type framework?

I've only worked on a few SPA's in the past years and every single one of them had some unique fundamental demands that led to some equally unique and fundamental differences in how the app was built.

Maybe I'm just not creative enough, but I find it difficult to come up with one Rails-size solution that would've been useful for all of these apps.

On the other hand, I remember when Rails took off, it seemed like an obvious batteries-included solution to a whole set of rather typical CRUD websites.

Few random thoughts of things that make SPA's less 'standardized' and perhaps, at this time, less likely to benefit from Rails-size frameworks:

- with SPA's you often have to work with the back-end that is provided to you. That's usually not an issue with Rails. - since the significant logic is now client-side (routing, etc), you have a large number of possible ways to synchronize server-side routing with client-side routing. - code size is an issue, so in some cases choosing a simpler solution for one part of the stack is necessary, plus for anything big you need to deal with code splitting and all that this entails. - performance is an issue so we can't just re-render the entire page. React and similar solutions have been one of the best improvements in this regard and take out a bunch of complexity (but add some of their own). With a non-SPA solution this is just not an issue. - browser compatibility is still an issue. With an SPA solution you need to consider all the same stuff as with a non-SPA framework, but now you also have to deal with things like javascript version support, event handling inconsistencies, local storage, animations, multiple forms of interaction (slide, drag&drop, etc.), loading indicators and potentially a whole bunch of async stuff.

But perhaps most fundamentally: in a 'typical' Rails setup, the basic form of interaction is basically url -> page. It's turning one string into a bigger string. But in a typical SPA, there are tons of different types of interactions that lead to tons of different results. Any interaction with the page can mean: change state, send or retrieve something to or from server, save something in a cookie, go to a different page, load a different piece of content without changing the route, load content and animate to it (so simply navigating to a different route is not enough), and that's just off the top of my head.

And you generally still need some kind of back-end on top of that with its own complexities and odd ways of interacting with your client-side code.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#139
post #102
post #76

Interesting they made that bet on Ember... My only assumption is they made that bet a few years ago and have been working on the refresh that just went live. Seasoned Ember developers are going to be hard to come by not that they couldn't settle for any other JavaScript specialist. I'm debating on an Ember gig this very moment and am slightly bothered by the idea of spending a year on a framework that is on a downwar…

> downward popularity trend Ember has always dwarfed by Angular and now more recently.. React. They simply have more marketing dollars behind them. That said, it has always had a strong community behind it, and believe it or not it's still growing strong.

Marketing dollars?

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#140
Some of the discussions on this thread remind me why I'm pleased I don't work on code for browsers.

I've been writing native (or python) stuff for a long while, and I've come to rely on the assumptions the code makes being roughly constant (from the point of view of the language definition.)

My brain recoils at the idea of targeting a large number of different systems at once, like browsers and their versions, and then have the same code run on the huge set of future versions...

If your code behaves differently under a new GCC, it indicates a bug in your code. If your javascript behaves differently in the latest Chrome, that's just life.

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