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I’m Joining LinkedIn

tomdale.net

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Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#121

Post by orf »

jamies888888 wrote: post #113

Who signs off moving huge, billion dollar companies onto immature, "hip" JavaScript frameworks? I don't get it. It's too niche. It's too risky. How are you expected to make hires for specialists in such a niche technology which may or may not be here in a few years? Do they just hire good JavaScript developers and train them for Ember? And also tell them they may have to retrain in another framework in a couple of ye…

Ember has been around for a while now, isn't that hip and very stable for a JS framework.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#122

Post by orf »

Ralfp wrote: post #28
WhitneyLand wrote: post #22

Is this concerning? https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=ember.js,react.js In any case congrats on the new gig Tom.

I've moved from Ember to React year back. Then over year I've (crappily) recreated Ember.js using React.js and libraries. Ember.js had many strong parts, but also had many issues that pulled it down. Documentation overfocused on explaining concepts but not providing examples of how to solve real issues. New release every six weeks bringing painful deprecations and changes. Lack of realworld apps to look up to for exa…

I agree with your points about documentation and release cadence (they do have a LTS release now though), but we've used ember-data with a Django backend since day one and it's been flawless in every respect. Once you configure it there are no issues

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#123

Post by stupidcar »

kethinov wrote: post #51

> Perhaps you can write a tiny web app that loads instantly and still retains a full set of features, but most of the world cannot. I've long been skeptical of this line of thinking emanating from major thick client JS framework authors. I think they underestimate what people are capable of. > Over time, Ember will become like gcc -O3 for web apps, intelligently optimizing them and delivering them as fast as possible…

Purely anecdotal. Got any statistics to back up your opinions?

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#124

Post by cocktailpeanuts »

addicted wrote: post #98
kethinov wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bandwagoning is disproportionately on the side of those leaning towards big frameworks. Look, I've been on the inside of large companies making framework choices and rarely is the decision rational. Often it's based on what's popular and based on the assumption that popular things are popular for good reasons. Biased metrics get thrown around to justify preconceived notions, and off to the races we go. Years late…

Large companies almost by definition need to hire a lot of developers. Seems to me that it would be an absolutely rational and sensible choice to use popular frameworks keeping those constraints in mind. Google would go bankrupt from a combination of the insane salaries they'd have to pay and the inability to ever fill jobs if its entire stack was based on Haskell.

Google will hire people who can write good vanilla JS code, not someone who's good at the latest fad js framework. In fact, if you're good at writing vanilla JS, you would probably pick up these frameworks overnight.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#125

Post by pimeys »

Desustorm wrote: post #120
gravyboat wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LinkedIn tried to hire me to help with their SaltStack infrastructure several years ago when they were first rolling it out/beefing up their infra with it and I emphatically said no. Even if I like working with the technology I would never work somewhere like LinkedIn, they are scum and working there lowers my opinion of a person.

Out of interest, why are they scum? Never heard this before about LinkedIn.

I don't know are they really scum, but also for me the platform is mostly clueless headhunter bots offering Ruby positions even without reading my CV. Ok, I know it's nice that we have headhunters banging our doors, but when you like to do things properly yourself, you kind of expect the same from the headhunters.

P.S. I never took any jobs from that platform.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#126

Post by cocktailpeanuts »

luketheobscure wrote: post #111
iamleppert wrote: post #109

The ember roll out within LinkedIn has been a disaster from those I know still working there. No one likes it and it takes over 20 minutes to "build" the code from scratch. We're talking about frontend code, mind you. At a certain level in LinkedIn, someone decided to standardize on Ember. Fine. But there were many issues, and instead of finding a more suitable and workable pragmatic framework, LinkedIn is instead de…

I can't imagine where that 20 minutes number came from. Maybe a fresh `git clone && npm install && bower install && ember start`... But even then that seems very high (and somewhat irrelevant since subsequent builds will take seconds). Citation needed? The people who are talking publicly seem very excited about how things are going. Chris Thoburn (runspired) was on Ember Weekend a few weeks ago talking about the work…

if you count all the jenkins task with automated unit tests and integration tests, etc. this is pretty believable. It happens all the time.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#127

Post by mzzter »

Desustorm wrote: post #120
gravyboat wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LinkedIn tried to hire me to help with their SaltStack infrastructure several years ago when they were first rolling it out/beefing up their infra with it and I emphatically said no. Even if I like working with the technology I would never work somewhere like LinkedIn, they are scum and working there lowers my opinion of a person.

Out of interest, why are they scum? Never heard this before about LinkedIn.

I'm curious to know about this too.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#128

Post by sangnoir »

kethinov wrote: post #51

> Perhaps you can write a tiny web app that loads instantly and still retains a full set of features, but most of the world cannot. I've long been skeptical of this line of thinking emanating from major thick client JS framework authors. I think they underestimate what people are capable of. > Over time, Ember will become like gcc -O3 for web apps, intelligently optimizing them and delivering them as fast as possible…

>> Perhaps you can write a tiny web app that loads instantly and still retains a full set of features, but most of the world cannot.

> I've long been skeptical of this line of thinking emanating from major thick client JS framework authors. I think they underestimate what people are capable of

Sometimes even when you can, you shouldn't. Any reasonably-sized organisation will have churn; new developers will have to ramp-up and it will take longer to do so on a hand-coded framework with all it's idiosyncrasies. I'll take Ember over Random Jim's framework, even though he is technically brilliant.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#129

Post by smartbit »

joshhart wrote: post #40
ffn wrote: post #26

> Joining LinkedIn Great, I'm glad Ember is gaining more traction in enterprise... but what does this mean for things like Fastboot, Ember 3.0, glimmer 2.0, ember-cli 3.0, and the whole cast of in-room-elephants such as ember-redux, flexi, ember-data, vr, etc.?

The mobile-web version of LinkedIn and the new website are built in Ember. We already use Glimmer 2.0 because we care about web performance. So we care deeply about many of the things you mentioned. Source: I'm the lead eng for our consumer group

Just out of curiosity I logged into the mobile site. First I was greeted with "your browser is not supported". After I logged in, I found a website full of nonsense news, mixed with advertisements. Not a place I would go to for any meaningful reason.

My personal conclusion: LinkedIn is a lame duck. The previous owners sold it at the right moment to Microsoft.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#130

Post by yoz-y »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #124
addicted wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large companies almost by definition need to hire a lot of developers. Seems to me that it would be an absolutely rational and sensible choice to use popular frameworks keeping those constraints in mind. Google would go bankrupt from a combination of the insane salaries they'd have to pay and the inability to ever fill jobs if its entire stack was based on Haskell.

Google will hire people who can write good vanilla JS code, not someone who's good at the latest fad js framework. In fact, if you're good at writing vanilla JS, you would probably pick up these frameworks overnight.

Pickup a framework overnight results in shoehorning your current knowledge into the framework and late night rants about how the framework sucks.
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