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I’m Joining LinkedIn

tomdale.net

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Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#111

Post by luketheobscure »

iamleppert wrote: post #109

The ember roll out within LinkedIn has been a disaster from those I know still working there. No one likes it and it takes over 20 minutes to "build" the code from scratch. We're talking about frontend code, mind you. At a certain level in LinkedIn, someone decided to standardize on Ember. Fine. But there were many issues, and instead of finding a more suitable and workable pragmatic framework, LinkedIn is instead de…

I can't imagine where that 20 minutes number came from. Maybe a fresh `git clone && npm install && bower install && ember start`... But even then that seems very high (and somewhat irrelevant since subsequent builds will take seconds). Citation needed?

The people who are talking publicly seem very excited about how things are going. Chris Thoburn (runspired) was on Ember Weekend a few weeks ago talking about the work he's doing on Ember Data over at LinkedIn.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#112

Post by fergie »

neom wrote: post #24

Regardless of web tech, Tom is an awesome dude and Linkedin is lucky to have him. ^5

I kind of agree with this. Saw him give a presentation a few years ago, and was very impressed (and entertained). Tried out ember after that, and quickly found some dead ends for my use case, but hey- at least he actually got out of bed and made something.

Another thing to bear in mind is that ember is more or less an independent technology, whereas Angular and React have the weight of giant corporations behind them.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#113

Post by jamies888888 »

Who signs off moving huge, billion dollar companies onto immature, "hip" JavaScript frameworks? I don't get it. It's too niche. It's too risky. How are you expected to make hires for specialists in such a niche technology which may or may not be here in a few years?

Do they just hire good JavaScript developers and train them for Ember? And also tell them they may have to retrain in another framework in a couple of years when Ember becomes defunct?

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#114

Post by fiatjaf »

fiatjaf wrote: post #8

So Tom Dale is one of the creators of Ember. Now he is joining LinkedIn to work with Ember. I think this is a little sad. I can't stop imagining that he thinks that something like React is better than Ember in all situations, but since he has such high Ember credentials and somehow LinkedIn decided to go with Ember then he feels he must accept that job.

Clarifying: I was just imagining, I wasn't asserting that the he thinks React is better.

I don't see how you don't consider this hypothese. React cane out after Ember, and conquered the hearts of many many JS developers. Why couldn't Tom Dale be one of them?

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#115

Post by [deleted] »

citruspi wrote: post #108
darfs wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think here we have the "my tooling/programming language is the best, in every situation everytime". I could be wrong. Edit: typos

Yeah, but fiatjaf is saying that Tom Dale (one of the creators of Ember.js) believes that React is better than Ember in every scenario, not the opposite. That's the part that doesn't make sense.

[deleted]

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#116

Post by darfs »

citruspi wrote: post #108
darfs wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think here we have the "my tooling/programming language is the best, in every situation everytime". I could be wrong. Edit: typos

Yeah, but fiatjaf is saying that Tom Dale (one of the creators of Ember.js) believes that React is better than Ember in every scenario, not the opposite. That's the part that doesn't make sense.

I think it's about he thinks that Dale believes. And thats based on the opinion that React is the best in everything that Ember could do..

If Dale Said it otherwise, im sorry. Its all about opinions Here :-/

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#117

Post by gravyboat »

iamleppert wrote: post #109

The ember roll out within LinkedIn has been a disaster from those I know still working there. No one likes it and it takes over 20 minutes to "build" the code from scratch. We're talking about frontend code, mind you. At a certain level in LinkedIn, someone decided to standardize on Ember. Fine. But there were many issues, and instead of finding a more suitable and workable pragmatic framework, LinkedIn is instead de…

LinkedIn tried to hire me to help with their SaltStack infrastructure several years ago when they were first rolling it out/beefing up their infra with it and I emphatically said no. Even if I like working with the technology I would never work somewhere like LinkedIn, they are scum and working there lowers my opinion of a person.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#118

Post by andreime »

fiatjaf wrote: post #114
fiatjaf wrote: post #8

So Tom Dale is one of the creators of Ember. Now he is joining LinkedIn to work with Ember. I think this is a little sad. I can't stop imagining that he thinks that something like React is better than Ember in all situations, but since he has such high Ember credentials and somehow LinkedIn decided to go with Ember then he feels he must accept that job.

Clarifying: I was just imagining, I wasn't asserting that the he thinks React is better. I don't see how you don't consider this hypothese. React cane out after Ember, and conquered the hearts of many many JS developers. Why couldn't Tom Dale be one of them?

Making assumptions like this is a dangerous habit.

1. React and Ember are different things, one is a framework, the other is not.

2. Ember 2.0 was a backwards compatible evolution of 1.0 that shifted the approach from MVC (old state of the art) to a more components based approach (similar to React in concept, not in implementation). Tom Dale was instrumental in making this happen, he didn't just ship v1 then proceeded to use React while doing some sad Ember support on the sidelines.

3. Why would he be one of them? Angular 1.x was the best thing for many JS developers, yet React came along. Why wouldn't the React developers just love Angular 1? There's a possibility that React will loose popularity to another solution.

4. Popularity is one potential indicator of how good a solution is. Despite it's popularity, many seasoned JS developers heavily disliked Angular 1.x because it felt like an overengineered-java-like-approach to building web apps. There are many seasoned JS programmers who are moving away from React to other solutions (Angular 2, Ember) because they have other pain points now, than 2 years ago. For example, Tom Dale once told me that he doesn't like redux as a solution for keeping the entire app state - yet Redux is all the rave now in Reactland.

5. JS (similar to PHP) has huge numbers of junior developers that can't build a web app on their own yet are working inside teams and are, in various degrees, competent at doing specific tasks. Almost all of the junior developers I know have heard of React and want to work with it despite not having the least understanding of what problems it solves and what problems it adds.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#119

Post by Matthias247 »

jamies888888 wrote: post #113

Who signs off moving huge, billion dollar companies onto immature, "hip" JavaScript frameworks? I don't get it. It's too niche. It's too risky. How are you expected to make hires for specialists in such a niche technology which may or may not be here in a few years? Do they just hire good JavaScript developers and train them for Ember? And also tell them they may have to retrain in another framework in a couple of ye…

I'm not into Ember and have no clue how it compares to the other SPA frameworks. But from these political point of view it doesn't look worse than the others. React and Angular might die or change in an unsuitable way even sooner since they are driven by other big companies for their own merits. Maybe extjs or aurelia might be different, since they are maintained by companies which earn their money through this.

The good thing is that if a company is as big as LinkedIn they could probably maintain the framework on their own if it gets out of favor. Of course they could also directly start a new one for their internal use, but it's questionable if this would get any better than the existing ones.

Re: I’m Joining LinkedIn

#120

Post by Desustorm »

gravyboat wrote: post #117
iamleppert wrote: post #109

The ember roll out within LinkedIn has been a disaster from those I know still working there. No one likes it and it takes over 20 minutes to "build" the code from scratch. We're talking about frontend code, mind you. At a certain level in LinkedIn, someone decided to standardize on Ember. Fine. But there were many issues, and instead of finding a more suitable and workable pragmatic framework, LinkedIn is instead de…

LinkedIn tried to hire me to help with their SaltStack infrastructure several years ago when they were first rolling it out/beefing up their infra with it and I emphatically said no. Even if I like working with the technology I would never work somewhere like LinkedIn, they are scum and working there lowers my opinion of a person.

Out of interest, why are they scum? Never heard this before about LinkedIn.
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