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Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

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Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#21

Post by [deleted] »

FellowTraveler wrote: post #11
MarcusBrutus wrote: post #9

Bitcoin fails to satisfactorily answer von Mises' regression theorem. It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. Not to mention that once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a hear…

> once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a heartbeat Actually, the unique feature that makes Bitcoin special is specifically its censorship-resistance. That's why people value it -- because it cannot be shut down.

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#23

Post by onewaystreet »

MarcusBrutus wrote: post #9

Bitcoin fails to satisfactorily answer von Mises' regression theorem. It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. Not to mention that once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a hear…

I've seen comments like this posted on HN for the past 3 years. Bitcoin's "bubble" has already popped many times but it has rebounded each time. Maybe the next time will be the last, but a lot of people have been wrong about that so far.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#24

Post by gre »

bduerst wrote: post #13
baddox wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. I don't get this argument. Competing cryptocurrencies won't be spendable on the Bitcoin block chain and vice versa, so Bitcoin's scarcity isn't compromised. It's true that Bitcoin could face co…

They're referring to any unique characteristics that give Bitcoin value in competing with other cryptocurrencies, which is mostly true. There are already a number of newer cryptocurrencies that are better than bitcoin (e.g. no block size issue, computational waste, etc.) but with bitcoin it will take more than that to dethrone Bitcoin's brand as "Internet Drug Money".

Which cryptocurrencies in particular are worth watching and why?

Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#25

Post by CN7R »

MarcusBrutus wrote: post #9

Bitcoin fails to satisfactorily answer von Mises' regression theorem. It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. Not to mention that once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a hear…

Yes, Bitcoin has many competitors but it is the only cryptocurrency to have achieved 'mass' adoption. When you think of the pinnacle digital currency, it's Bitcoin -- that has value to consumers and merchants, more than other currencies regardless of their features.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#26

Post by learc83 »

FellowTraveler wrote: post #11
MarcusBrutus wrote: post #9

Bitcoin fails to satisfactorily answer von Mises' regression theorem. It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. Not to mention that once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a hear…

> once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a heartbeat Actually, the unique feature that makes Bitcoin special is specifically its censorship-resistance. That's why people value it -- because it cannot be shut down.

It can be pretty effectively shut down by devaluing it to the point of uselessness.

Governments could make it illegal to conduct trade using bit coins, and they could make it very difficult to convert by going after people doing the conversion. I think that would pretty effectively tank the value.

They could also buy or confiscate a large percentage of all existing bitcoin pretty easily, and then use that to manipulate the market.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#27

Post by stale2002 »

MarcusBrutus wrote: post #9

Bitcoin fails to satisfactorily answer von Mises' regression theorem. It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. Not to mention that once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a hear…

"Not to mention that once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a heartbeat."

People keep saying that, and they keep being wrong. Think of all the illegal things that happen over bitcoin. There are lots of people who would want to shut it down if they could.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#28

Post by baddox »

bduerst wrote: post #13
baddox wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. I don't get this argument. Competing cryptocurrencies won't be spendable on the Bitcoin block chain and vice versa, so Bitcoin's scarcity isn't compromised. It's true that Bitcoin could face co…

They're referring to any unique characteristics that give Bitcoin value in competing with other cryptocurrencies, which is mostly true. There are already a number of newer cryptocurrencies that are better than bitcoin (e.g. no block size issue, computational waste, etc.) but with bitcoin it will take more than that to dethrone Bitcoin's brand as "Internet Drug Money".

There are undoubtedly improvements that can be made to Bitcoin or adopted by its competitors. But you still have to have people using a currency. Anyway, my point is that this doesn't compromise the scarcity of Bitcoin. Scarcity of a currency does not refer to a lack of competing currencies.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#29

Post by stale2002 »

bduerst wrote: post #19
petertodd wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All existing cryptocurrencies have a block size issue because blockchains have terrible scalability; removing a safety limit doesn't make the underlying problem go away.

I'm referring to the famed blocksize debate [1] that's happened with Bitcoin, in which several miners have gained control of the blockchain through economies of scale and are preventing forks for block size increase [2]. This size increase would allow for more than 7 tx/s but it would also increase costs for miners, so the miners are ignoring it, effectively making it tragedy of the commons. Note: This isn't a blockc…

Look, I am a pro big blocker myself (I think that the network would be perfectly fine with a 4-8x capacity increase). But Peter Todd has a point. (I would hope so. He is literally one of the experts)

Imagine if blocks were x Gigabytes. Thats X GigaBytes that have to be sent to every single miner in the world every 10 minutes!

There is a fundamental N squared problem in blockchains that you can't get around without using some very clever tricks that haven't been implemented yet.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Escapist Safe Haven

#30

Post by bduerst »

onewaystreet wrote: post #23
MarcusBrutus wrote: post #9

Bitcoin fails to satisfactorily answer von Mises' regression theorem. It also has no scarcity since it can face competition by an infinite number of similar conceivable algorithms / block-chains / virtual currencies that offer much the same features, regardless of how hard its own mining gets. Not to mention that once it is perceived as more than just a nuisance by some major government it will be shut down in a hear…

I've seen comments like this posted on HN for the past 3 years. Bitcoin's "bubble" has already popped many times but it has rebounded each time. Maybe the next time will be the last, but a lot of people have been wrong about that so far.

We're entering a new bubble, this one being driven as the Yuan crashes: https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&...

Just because it's being repeated doesn't mean it's wrong.

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