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Apple Removes New York Times Apps from iTunes Store in China

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Re: Apple Removes New York Times Apps from iTunes Store in China

#131

Post by seanmcdirmid »

krapp wrote: post #124
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, when japan does live action versions of their anime, they are unable to find Caucasian actors to fill roles that are obviously Caucasian. Tamaki Suoh in Ouran Host Club obviously has blonde hair and blue eyes in the anime, but in the live action becomes completely Japanese! Perhaps they just couldn't find an actor that looked the role?

Japan is 98% Japanese - that comparison doesn't even make sense. >Perhaps they just couldn't find an actor that looked the role? Of course they could, but the problem is it seems as if they wouldn't dare try. They stopped looking after "the one hot female lead we put in every sci-fi movie now."

Yes they are. Yet they present a diverse universe of characters whose ethnicities are clearly not Japanese or are very ambiguous.

Note that for this reason, there was no controversy about the casting of the GIS protagonist in Japan itself. The vocal critics have all been Asian Americans. But that doesn't really say much, as this movie is being judged as an American one rather than a Japanese one; the lack of Asian American actors getting roles like these bothers me also.

Re: Apple Removes New York Times Apps from iTunes Store in China

#132

Post by seanmcdirmid »

olalonde wrote: post #126
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was Wen Jiaobao and much earlier than Xi Dai. Economist and Time were recently blocked because of Xi jinping articles. "China bashing" is simply a euphemism for being critical on china, any kind of criticism is applied the term. The CPC just cannot accept criticism from anyone in any form, so they block it all out. Only low value news sources like CNN and Fox remain. Chinese are incredibly self critical in china b…

> "China bashing" is simply a euphemism for being critical on china I understand it as being overly or gratuitously critical of China but of course, it's hard to define objectively. Personally, I feel like most American media is biased against China but I hold a relatively positive view of China.

Try living in china for a few years, once the honey moon is over :). Dealing with the air pollution, GFW, hideous traffic, and currency controls will wear a guy down.

Re: Apple Removes New York Times Apps from iTunes Store in China

#133

Post by xnull2guest »

roywiggins wrote: post #127
xnull2guest wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Full stop, no it isn't. It was my understanding that 18 U.S. Code § 871 included depictions enticing or encouraging such acts. I will look this up and come back with more information at a later time. And to be clear here I mean a depiction of an actual US president. Not a fictitious president. > Full stop, no it doesn't. Where the heck are you getting such misinformation? It is not just wrong, it is bordering on li…

Death of a President was screened in the US. It depicts a fictional assassination of the then-sitting US President. There wasn't even a whiff of illegality around it, even if the big chains refused to screen it, it wasn't for fear of prosecution. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_President_%282006...

Wasn't that a British film?

I'm talking about American law where American law applies.

Re: Apple Removes New York Times Apps from iTunes Store in China

#134

Post by xnull2guest »

grzm wrote: post #121
xnull2guest wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Full stop, no it isn't. It was my understanding that 18 U.S. Code § 871 included depictions enticing or encouraging such acts. I will look this up and come back with more information at a later time. And to be clear here I mean a depiction of an actual US president. Not a fictitious president. > Full stop, no it doesn't. Where the heck are you getting such misinformation? It is not just wrong, it is bordering on li…

It was my understanding that 18 U.S. Code § 871 included depictions enticing or encouraging such acts. If that's the case, I suspect that the relevant language here is enticing or encouraging . Depictions of, say, historical events would be different. That said, I am most definitely not a lawyer.

This is my understanding as well. But we're going to need to come back later with some input from case law.

Re: Apple Removes New York Times Apps from iTunes Store in China

#135

Post by eternalban »

kahirsch wrote: post #92
eternalban wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your demonstration is one incident. Are you telling me that if the equivalent of /The Patriot Act/ was created in China, or Russia, or take-your-pick-enemy-dujour, and passed unread by the legislature of that nation The New York Times would not skewer them in print and run multipage spreads in the Sunday Magazine detailing every questionable aspect? Remind me: How did The New York Times cover that event.

Some NY Times articles related to USA PATRIOT Act and similar issues: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/20/us/nation-challenged-safet... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/21/us/nation-challenged-safet... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/us/a-nation-challenged-civ... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/weekinreview/aftermath-the... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/24/us/war-on-terrorism-stirs-... http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09…

Here are nytimes.com front pages for Oct. 13 and 14 2001. This is the day that congress passed Patriot Act.

http://web.archive.org/web/20011013055359/http://nytimes.com...

http://web.archive.org/web/20011014065756/http://nytimes.com...

Front page worthy, in your opinion?

And a no robots showed up on Oct 19, 2001: http://web.archive.org/web/20011019003114/http://nytimes.com...

And no archive of record for Oct 26, 2001 (Bush signed on this date): October 26, 2001: http://web.archive.org/web/20011026031103/http://www.nytimes...

Re: Apple Removes New York Times Apps from iTunes Store in China

#136

Post by seanmcdirmid »

xnull2guest wrote: post #133
roywiggins wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Death of a President was screened in the US. It depicts a fictional assassination of the then-sitting US President. There wasn't even a whiff of illegality around it, even if the big chains refused to screen it, it wasn't for fear of prosecution. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_President_%282006...

Wasn't that a British film? I'm talking about American law where American law applies.

It was released in America, so it doesn't matter. America law applies (and the first amendment, unlike the free speech garauntee in the Chinese constitution, ours actually means something).

Re: Apple Removes New York Times Apps from iTunes Store in China

#137

Post by krapp »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #131
krapp wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan is 98% Japanese - that comparison doesn't even make sense. >Perhaps they just couldn't find an actor that looked the role? Of course they could, but the problem is it seems as if they wouldn't dare try. They stopped looking after "the one hot female lead we put in every sci-fi movie now."

Yes they are. Yet they present a diverse universe of characters whose ethnicities are clearly not Japanese or are very ambiguous. Note that for this reason, there was no controversy about the casting of the GIS protagonist in Japan itself. The vocal critics have all been Asian Americans. But that doesn't really say much, as this movie is being judged as an American one rather than a Japanese one; the lack of Asian Am…

>Note that for this reason, there was no controversy about the casting of the GIS protagonist in Japan itself. The vocal critics have all been Asian Americans.

Because Asian Americans are more aware of the lack of diversity in roles for Asians in American movies. Japanese people would have no idea about that because where they live, every hero on every screen in every Japanese movie is Japanese.

I'm well aware of the style in anime to present characters as "stateless", and why it's done, but that isn't the problem. Asian actors appearing to not be on equal footing with Caucasian and African American actors when it comes to the roles they're allowed to portray is the problem.

I'm sick of seeing the same few faces in everything.

Re: Apple Removes New York Times Apps from iTunes Store in China

#138

Post by grzm »

xnull2guest wrote: post #133
roywiggins wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Death of a President was screened in the US. It depicts a fictional assassination of the then-sitting US President. There wasn't even a whiff of illegality around it, even if the big chains refused to screen it, it wasn't for fear of prosecution. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_President_%282006...

Wasn't that a British film? I'm talking about American law where American law applies.

From the Wikipedia article:

Newmarket paid one million dollars for the U.S. distribution rights.

The film was screened in the U.S. for 14 days, showing at 143 theatres at its widest release.

Regardless of where it was created, if there were such a prohibition, the film most certainly wouldn't have been shown in the US, nor anyone silly enough to pay for distribution rights. Note there were issues regarding screening, but it was some independent companies—not some government regulation—that made the decision not to screen it. All of this is evident from your parent comment.

Why is it so important for you to press this particular point, even after you've said you would refer to the law later tonight?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13324076

I will look this up and come back with more information at a later time.

If you are no longer willing to discuss this in good faith, please refrain from discussing it at all. I, for one, will not comment on this further.

Re: Apple Removes New York Times Apps from iTunes Store in China

#139

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

krapp wrote: post #124
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, when japan does live action versions of their anime, they are unable to find Caucasian actors to fill roles that are obviously Caucasian. Tamaki Suoh in Ouran Host Club obviously has blonde hair and blue eyes in the anime, but in the live action becomes completely Japanese! Perhaps they just couldn't find an actor that looked the role?

Japan is 98% Japanese - that comparison doesn't even make sense. >Perhaps they just couldn't find an actor that looked the role? Of course they could, but the problem is it seems as if they wouldn't dare try. They stopped looking after "the one hot female lead we put in every sci-fi movie now."

The standard excuse is there are no Japanese actors with good enough English skills. Why they can't draw from the Nisei population in Hawaii and the west coast is still baffling.

Re: Apple Removes New York Times Apps from iTunes Store in China

#140

Post by thelittleone »

throwaway122916 wrote: post #97
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except a movie could be totally subversive of the American government (the CIA or military is the bad guy, a national/state/local government is corrupt, etc...) and the movie could still go into wide production and make millions of dollars. Heck, it even is super easy to find examples of that (you want to know the truth? You can't handle the truth!). Now try doing that in China. Make the PLA the enemy or portray a co…

There are a lot of US movies that go the other way - praising the US military/portraying conflicts in good vs evil way. Example is Battle Los Angeles (2011) and American Sniper (2015). So such things are in effect "soft propaganda". In China, to protect themselves against such soft influence, they enact regulations. Letting people watch all US movies without a filter is effectively letting US set the cultural standar…

This is an important point. We're usually only tuned in to notice the propaganda of our "enemies", because to us they're evil and any attempt to appear otherwise is outrageous.

Another film example is Act of Valor (2012). An enjoyable demonstration of real military hardware, accompanied by god mode special forces operators, jumping in to any country, saving the world from super villains. This film provides a sense of security to the US and it's allies whilst simultaneously instilling fear in it's enemies.

All respect to the real heroes out there, military and otherwise.

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