Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 134 posts

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#111

Post by jessaustin »

jessriedel wrote: post #106
paradite wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone looking for a quick answer, this is from the 4th paragraph in the article: While the train can carry about 200 containers, versus 20,000 on a large cargo vessel, the trip takes about half as long as a 30-day sailing between East Asia and northern Europe. That will make rail a competitive option when maritime shipments are held up or miss the booked departure, especially compared with airfreight, which cost…

It's amazing the contrast in usefulness between samhamilton's comment and jakozaur's Fermi estimate elsewhere in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13317649 It's just a completely different method of going about arguments.

The arguments have different content, as well. One says air freight costs twice what rail freight costs, while the other, more correct, comment observes that it's actually (6-18)x.

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#112

Post by jessaustin »

crdoconnor wrote: post #63
bkor wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is forgetting another option. Say your factory is relying on parts delivered to you by containers. One week there's heavy storms somewhere in Asia and your containers from China aren't loaded. Currently the only option is to either always keep a buffer of parts or to gamble and use airfreight in case needed. With such a rail option you'll have an alternative: by default use container vessel then in case of a…

Also blockades. This lets China continue trading with Europe if access to the straits of Malacca or Suez canal are cut off.

If we're considering such scenarios, train shipping seems much more vulnerable to interruption. After all the tracks transit many states rather than just one or two.

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#114

Post by tw04 »

novaleaf wrote: post #95
torrent-of-ions wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have thought so too, but I'm not sure. Does anyone have any figures on this?

no figures, but there is the northern route (north of russia) so getting to europe via sea is pretty direct. Thank global warming for that! https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/oct/05/melting-...

> the northern route could gradually be opened for four to six months a year

*There's a northern route that is only open for a portion of the year.

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#115

Post by rogerdpack »

Silhouette wrote: post #108
mikeash wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean more efficient than ships? Ships are far more efficient. They can scale up far larger, making for much lower fuel consumption per ton, and don't need to maintain much (or often any at all) infrastructure between terminals. Trains exist just because a substantial minority of the planet's surface isn't covered by water.

Indeed. It's hard to intuit because of the sheer scale of the vessels, but modern container shipping is almost magical in its capacity and efficiency. I once saw an estimate that the cost in resources to transport a container all the way from China to the UK on a ship was actually less than the cost of putting that container on the back of a lorry and transporting it just a few hundred miles to a distribution centre…

while also taking...a good while longer :)

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#116

Post by goatforce5 »

dx034 wrote: post #39
LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on the shipped goods, i think? One calculation was that of a 15 inch notebook at 2kg weight, they wrote: 28 days per ship, at 2,50 € and 184 kg co². By air 3 to 4 days at 23 € and 4950 kg co² emission. By train 17 to 18 days at 5,50 € and 270 kg co². But that is for a laptop, packaged in a specific volume with that weight. They also ship tires, automobile parts, shoes, clothing, textiles, whatnot.... in…

Yep, air freight is generally by weight, shipping by volume. Electronics are already sent via air, saving $3 shipping on a $1500 item doesn't make much sense. Taking the UK as an example, 70% of non-EU exports by value go via Heathrow. Would expect the value to be similar for China. By volume it's probably low single digits for airfreight, by value likely >50%. Low value items and very heavy items are currently not v…

Yes, I was thinking this would be useful for fashion.

If you suddenly find a particular style/colour of item is popular and selling out it might make sense to get more items shipped via train and have them arrive in 2 weeks.

If you have to put it on a boat and wait 6 weeks you may have missed your chance to sell that item (e.g., people are moving on from summer to autumn clothing, etc.).

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#117

Post by thedogeye »

Ryan from Flexport here. Been trying to sell rail freight from China to the EU since start of 2016 with no luck. It's too much more expensive than sea freight and too much slower than air freight. We will keep plugging though because we think its super cool.

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#118

Post by sfoon »

thedogeye wrote: post #117

Ryan from Flexport here. Been trying to sell rail freight from China to the EU since start of 2016 with no luck. It's too much more expensive than sea freight and too much slower than air freight. We will keep plugging though because we think its super cool.

Why drum up business for a dictator led authoritarian government that suppresses its own people and other countries and pollutes the environment?

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#119

Post by goatforce5 »

ksec wrote: post #92

Offtopic: How far are we from shortening this trip from 15 days to say, 12 or 10 days? 15 days is half a month. But if this could be shortened to 10 days, it is 3 regular shipment in a month. For someone like Apple, this could be extremely cost efficient. Rather then paying the high price to book every single possible fright from China, they could now do it via train, at least to everywhere in Europe.

I can't find anywhere that mentions the frequency of the service, but I think it's safe to assume they don't wait for a container to do a complete round trip before the next shipment leaves.

Google tells me that Germany has seven freight train services a week going to/from China.

http://tbngroup.de/en/internation-forwarding-logistics-from-...

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#120

Post by stuaxo »

corobo wrote: post #68
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about CO2 impact, but one problem is that these trains are running pretty empty back to china (china doesn't want to import so much from Europe by rail). I think they are running 50 trains a year, with a heavy subsidy to make it affordable (half the cost).

Do the freight ships do the same? What do they bring back with them?

Mostly they are empty IRCC.
Post reply on HN