This seems like the beginnings of the plot of an anime I'd want to watch. Season two would probably start with the developer's getting complacent and a Chinese AI entering the scene.
Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
41–50 of 214 posts
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you give some examples of what you consider non-human? Really curious since I don't know much about common strategies in Go.
Human moves tend to fit a narrative and be explainable, although often for very concrete reasons. For example: "I am sketching out territory while attacking an opponent group." "I am making my group safe so that I will not have to worry about its life while I accomplish other strategic goals." "I am making a very strong group so that I can use it to make it harder for my opponent to accomplish anything." Master, on t…
> Human moves tend to fit a narrative and be explainable, although often for very concrete reasons.
I'm not a Go player, but could it not be that if the AI played its moved in a more human order you could see what was going on and assign a narrative to the moves, but the AI can see the order of the moves doesn't matter sometimes so it seems to play more vaguely/randomly to observers? For example, say the AI played a set of moves at the top of the board that you could give an attacking narrative to and then it plays a set of moves at the bottom of the board that you could give an defensive narrative to. If you intermixed the move order for both narratives you, it seems like the AI is playing in a nonhuman way when really its moves have a narrative but humans are too fixated on the move ordering.
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would call its style unorthodox rather than nonhuman. It still plays common josekis (standard opening sequences) but often chooses uncommon variations. Its mid game is full of startling moves backed by VERY good reading. There's definitely still discernible strategy that us mortals can learn from. If I recall correctly, the version that beat Lee Sedol was trained on amateur games plus self-play. My guess would be t…
The version that beat Lee Sedol was trained on pro games.
Their Nature paper says "We trained the policy network p_sigma to classify positions according to expert moves played in the KGS data set. This data set contains 29.4 million positions from 160,000 games played by KGS 6 to 9 dan human players; 35.4% of the games are handicap games."
It is possible that they fed it some pro games after the Fan Hui games but before the Lee Sedol games, but that would be weird; at that point it was already learning from self-play rather than trying to match human moves.
That said, I don't think that Master's better performance comes from being trained on pro games. The AlphaGo version that played Lee Sedol played much more like a human pro than Master does.
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#44It would be good to start experimenting with handicap stones to understand how many stones stronger the bot is. http://senseis.xmp.net/?Handicap Also experimenting with a new ranking system beyond 9 dan.
https://gokibitz.com/kifu/HkgGNBjqre
This game is a mirror go upto move 72. Black player is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chou_Chun-hsun
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#45> Go is regarded as the most complex board game ever invented
I'm not sure that's an accurate statement.
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Human moves tend to fit a narrative and be explainable, although often for very concrete reasons. For example: "I am sketching out territory while attacking an opponent group." "I am making my group safe so that I will not have to worry about its life while I accomplish other strategic goals." "I am making a very strong group so that I can use it to make it harder for my opponent to accomplish anything." Master, on t…
> Human moves tend to fit a narrative and be explainable, although often for very concrete reasons. I'm not a Go player, but could it not be that if the AI played its moved in a more human order you could see what was going on and assign a narrative to the moves, but the AI can see the order of the moves doesn't matter sometimes so it seems to play more vaguely/randomly to observers? For example, say the AI played a…
You call it narrative when you understand what's going on.
You call it chaos when it's far above your head.
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#47This is impressive. According to the article, the bot has not yet lost. I think at the end of 2017, we may have to say that computers have conquered Go. Interesting that the timing is 20 years after mastering chess.
The series is over with a score of 60-0. You can find all the games at http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4922688212?pn=1 It's chinese but the pictures are universal and the comments don't really matter much. By the way, Google Translate makes a pretty horrible work at translating those pages. I think they need to add some more DeepMind to it :-) To be fair, they probably don't have much training data for the jargon of the gam…
One example: 구리 (Roman : guli for player Gu Li), is translated to Copper (Literal Word meaning).
One area google translate could look at is the name identification from the context and using roman instead of literal translation.
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#48[deleted]
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#49Wonder when we will see AI tutors appear? Seems like there is a massive potential to train an AI super player then have it teach you. Does anyone know of such tools yet? Guess there are probably many AI augmented things we use all the time (Google Search) but just don't know it. Fascinating to think.
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#50This seems like the beginnings of the plot of an anime I'd want to watch. Season two would probably start with the developer's getting complacent and a Chinese AI entering the scene.
Really hope to see one machine against another. In future we'd probably have game tournament of AI machines. Example my tensorflow-build machine against your openai-build machine in a StarCraft game.
Exactly that has already been going on since 2010 :)
There's a livestream of bots facing off here: https://www.twitch.tv/certicky