Interesting reddit discussion before reveal. Assesses bot identity and gameplay: https://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/5l3l7e/chinese_ai_cr...
Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
11–20 of 214 posts
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#12One thing that isn't made clear in this writeup is that Master plays in a very nonhuman style, as opposed to the version of AlphaGo that beat Lee Sedol, which mostly played like a strong human except for a few surprising moves. My first guess when I saw Master's games was that it was a program like AlphaGo that had its policy network trained from scratch rather than being bootstrapped by being given the goal of imita…
> I would not have guessed that human strategy was that deficient.
With as much freedom as Go allows I think it would be surprising if humans had stumbled upon an optimal strategy (or Master for that matter, I'm sure there is still much to be improved!).
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#13One thing that isn't made clear in this writeup is that Master plays in a very nonhuman style, as opposed to the version of AlphaGo that beat Lee Sedol, which mostly played like a strong human except for a few surprising moves. My first guess when I saw Master's games was that it was a program like AlphaGo that had its policy network trained from scratch rather than being bootstrapped by being given the goal of imita…
Can you give some examples of what you consider non-human? Really curious since I don't know much about common strategies in Go.
Human moves tend to fit a narrative and be explainable, although often for very concrete reasons. For example:
"I am sketching out territory while attacking an opponent group."
"I am making my group safe so that I will not have to worry about its life while I accomplish other strategic goals."
"I am making a very strong group so that I can use it to make it harder for my opponent to accomplish anything."
Master, on the other hand, will sometimes seemingly just plop stones down in the middle of the board in a way that is hard to assign a narrative to. One can list a bunch of ways that the stone might come in handy in various futures, but it's too "vague" a move to be played with confidence by a human professional go player.
Of course, human strategies may change in response...
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#14It seems that AlphaGo has got even better since when it defeated Lee Sedol. This time, AlphaGo is undefeated against other top players. However, it also gives other players a chance to practice against AlphaGo and finds weaknesses in AlphaGo, which is super important for any competition.
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#15[deleted]
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you give some examples of what you consider non-human? Really curious since I don't know much about common strategies in Go.
Human moves tend to fit a narrative and be explainable, although often for very concrete reasons. For example: "I am sketching out territory while attacking an opponent group." "I am making my group safe so that I will not have to worry about its life while I accomplish other strategic goals." "I am making a very strong group so that I can use it to make it harder for my opponent to accomplish anything." Master, on t…
This is usually called the metagame and evolves over time. My guess is that due to these unseen tactics the metagame will change and human playstyle will become more AI-like and adapt to the changing circumstances. The real question is whether people would be able to keep pace with rapidly changing AI playstyles?
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#17I'm pretty sure this[1] is the archives of the bot's play.
You can download the SGF files of the matches from there and view them online at EidoGo[2]
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#18I'm pretty sure this[1] is the archives of the bot's play. You can download the SGF files of the matches from there and view them online at EidoGo[2] [1] http://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp?user=Master [2] http://eidogo.com/upload
It was not on KGS, but Tygem and Fox, which are Asian servers.
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#19I'm pretty sure this[1] is the archives of the bot's play. You can download the SGF files of the matches from there and view them online at EidoGo[2] [1] http://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp?user=Master [2] http://eidogo.com/upload
Marcel Grünauer over on LifeIn19x19 has made a compilation of all 60 of Master's games. Found it just then! (A zip archive of 60 sgf[1] files) I _think_ that's all of them as of now.
http://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=13935
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Game_Format
ps: The Japanese term for a game record for the game of Go is kifu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kifu
Hence http://gokifu.com/ which tracks all pro games (and then some, I think)
Re: Google reveals secret test of AI bot to beat top Go players
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you give some examples of what you consider non-human? Really curious since I don't know much about common strategies in Go.
Human moves tend to fit a narrative and be explainable, although often for very concrete reasons. For example: "I am sketching out territory while attacking an opponent group." "I am making my group safe so that I will not have to worry about its life while I accomplish other strategic goals." "I am making a very strong group so that I can use it to make it harder for my opponent to accomplish anything." Master, on t…
When playing against a much stronger player, it's always very hard to figure out why they play tenuki (make a move somewhere else on the board, apparently uncorrelated to the current fight).
When AI gets strong enough (and it seems like it has already), it will just tenuki everyone all the time, while winning. Sounds like exactly what's happening already. It's past the event horizon for human understanding.