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Grumpy: Go running Python

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Re: Grumpy: Go running Python

#41

Post by the_duke »

dijit wrote: post #37
ericfrederich wrote: post #25

Python needs a new runtime. This talk shows how bad of shape it's really in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCGofLIzX6g&list=PLRdS-n5seL... Basically, the language doesn't have a "spec" per-se. The language is whatever the defacto CPython implementation happens to do within it's giant eval loop. Another great talk about CPython internals: http://pgbovine.net/cpython-internals.htm

cpython is the reference implementation, so it makes sense that it's; A) Not well optimised. B) Touting features before the spec/standard. EDIT: people really dislike that I said this, and I'm having trouble finding my original citation- it was on one of the many python books I own. Most likely "Learn Python The Hard Way" but I'll dig out the exact chapter where they compare pypy to cpython and mention that because c…

It makes sense that the official, primary and by far most popular implementation of one of the most used languages in existance is not well optimized?

(edit: I'm just being polemic about your statement here. CPython is reasonably optimized within the constraints it currently has).

Re: Grumpy: Go running Python

#43

Post by bigato »

I see some parallel with the work made to automatically convert Go compiler C code to Go code. Strategically wise, I'd rather have the software do the transpilation to the new language and then after extensive testing, ditch the old python codebase. But they probably don't agree with my preference of Go over Python.

Re: Grumpy: Go running Python

#44

Post by paulsmith »

dijit wrote: post #37
ericfrederich wrote: post #25

Python needs a new runtime. This talk shows how bad of shape it's really in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCGofLIzX6g&list=PLRdS-n5seL... Basically, the language doesn't have a "spec" per-se. The language is whatever the defacto CPython implementation happens to do within it's giant eval loop. Another great talk about CPython internals: http://pgbovine.net/cpython-internals.htm

cpython is the reference implementation, so it makes sense that it's; A) Not well optimised. B) Touting features before the spec/standard. EDIT: people really dislike that I said this, and I'm having trouble finding my original citation- it was on one of the many python books I own. Most likely "Learn Python The Hard Way" but I'll dig out the exact chapter where they compare pypy to cpython and mention that because c…

Who says CPython is not well-optimized?

CPython is 25 years old -- people have been making it faster for a long time. Python 3.6, the latest release, has many performance improvements, cf. http://www.infoworld.com/article/3120952/application-develop...

Re: Grumpy: Go running Python

#46

Post by jerf »

For those who are interested, I've used grumpy to compile the following Python code and placed it at https://play.golang.org/p/YP1SP7WsdR . (Note the playground can't run this, it just had convenient formatting support for Go; the generated source wasn't 100% gofmt compliant.)

    class Test(object):
        def __init__(self, value):
            self.value = value

        def method(self):
            print(self.value)

    class Test2(Test):
        pass

    t = Test("hello")

    t.method()
Pythonistas, note I had to have "class Test(object):" and not just "class Test:". The former compiled successfully into a Go program but that program then failed at runtime with "TypeError: class must have base classes".

Re: Grumpy: Go running Python

#47

Post by thedjinn »

I'm curious to why they started this project when there already is low hanging fruit that can speed up Python (e.g. pypy). What makes this better other than to satisfy the inner go-fanboy?

Re: Grumpy: Go running Python

#48

Post by Animats »

- Amusingly, it runs Python 2.7, even though this project started long after Python 3.x came out.

- It's a hard-code compiler, not an interpreter written in Go. That implies some restrictions, but the documentation doesn't say much about what they are. PyPy jumps through hoops to make all of Python's self modification at run-time features work, complicating PyPy enormously. Nobody uses that stuff in production code, and Google apparently dumped it.

- If Grumpy doesn't have a Global Interpreter Lock, it must have lower-level locking. Does every built-in data structure have a lock, or does the compiler have enough smarts to figure out what's shared across thread boundaries, or what?

Re: Grumpy: Go running Python

#50

Post by Veedrac »

machbio wrote: post #40
naasking wrote: post #4

I wonder why the Grumpy Fibonacci is so much slower than CPython for 1 thread. Seems weird given Grumpy is compiled.

Guido insists that single threaded performance of Python has the highest priority - http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=214235 I am not sure, any implementation of Python will beat the single threaded performance of Cpython..

CPython is still a naïve interpreter. PyPy beats it in most cases, sometimes by a lot. Of course, PyPy still has a GIL for the same reasons CPython does.
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