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Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

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Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#171
post #142
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't immediately think of any apps that are just as complex as Facebook's, but maybe I'm just not thinking hard enough. Could you give me some examples (honest question)?

Unreal Engine.

Based on their documentation—which, albeit, I know has many classes omitted—Unreal Engine has ~6900 classes. That number probably gets greatly multiplied, though, if you count generated classes.

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#172
post #162

Could someone explain to me why so many people on here fetishize scale? Scale is a constraint on a problem, and it affects the solution you come up with. I don't understand why solving problems around that constraint is considered cooler than solving problems around other constraints like uptime, performance, memory cost, etc. Does "Our API serves 234 million requests" hold more cachet than "Our medical device firmwa…

Scale is something of a measure of popularity. If our API serves 234 million requests per day, then presumably we're running something pretty popular and widely known.

Because of the democratization of "big data" and the (relatively) recent uptick in large internet services, serious scale is an engineering challenge that a few have been tackling for awhile, but many are facing for the first time. Think any company that has recently realized their data needs are bigger than what Excel can handle.

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#173
post #162

Could someone explain to me why so many people on here fetishize scale? Scale is a constraint on a problem, and it affects the solution you come up with. I don't understand why solving problems around that constraint is considered cooler than solving problems around other constraints like uptime, performance, memory cost, etc. Does "Our API serves 234 million requests" hold more cachet than "Our medical device firmwa…

This is just a guess, but I suspect that "scale" also generally correlates positively with compensation. A medical device company with 50 employees just doesn't have the same resources as a company with 1M+ users, for example. Following from that, compensation is one of the easiest ways to measure professional "success", which is why large, highly-compensated companies are commonly viewed as the pinnacle of software…

Scale is also scarce. There are few companies operating at Google or Facebook or Amazon scale. You can't just create a product at scale if you want to gain the experience of scaling a product, you have to be working somewhere that grows tremendously.

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#174
post #114

I am surprised that no one mentioned Microsoft so far. These days they are professional, innovation-driven, and do not bring in much of the unnecessary cult that comes with companies like Google. They are more open than Apple. Also from a personal experience I think their interviews / hiring methods are better than all of the other big players.

But are their engineering practices better? They used to take test seriously, but then they fired all the testers and quality of basic things has slipped. They don't even hire for dedicated testing roles any more. I get that devs are supposed to test their own code, but they are surprisingly bad at it overall and unit tests, despite being a great meme, just don't cut it. Some examples of quality issues: new limit to…

That's interesting to hear because I was reading the Software Project Survival Guide and it said that, at the time, Microsoft knew the value of quality because their tester to developer ratio was 1 to 1. Higher quality code had a ratio of up to 4 testers per developer. Low quality code is usually the opposite ratio, 1 tester for every 3-4 developers.

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these things also apply to Google, except: * you decide on a team before you start, but after you know you passed the interview * moving fast is not valued as much I would also add that Facebook uses a lot of Open Source, meaning your experience will be applicable elsewhere. Here are some potential advantages about working at Google: * Being ethical is a core value of the company. * Google/Alphabet is more divers…

Being ethical? Maybe the engineers need to have some ethics but not all products do.

I am assuming you are talking about privacy issues. Google collects a lot of data, but is very thoughtful about how they use it, who has access to it and gives users options to view and delete it.

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because they do 100% pair programming. When you rely on someone else being there at the same time as you, you need predictable hours. It's possible they don't need to be as fixed as they are, but that's how they've chosen to do it.

Basically they hire 2 people to do 1 person's work. I guess its a nice employment policy. But I would never work there.

That's not how pair programming works.

At some point you're going to need more than one person to understand the code and they either go through that learning process months down the road or right now when they can be most useful in shaping that code.

It's not simple mathematics.

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#177

I'm biased, but I'd say out of all the "big" tech companies, FB has the best engineering culture. * With few exceptions, engineers aren't hired for a specific team; they go through bootcamp where they get exposure to all parts of the stack and tasks from different teams. * Ideas usually come from engineers. Managers are there to be a sounding board/connect you with people resources as needed. * Moving fast is valued…

How is the work/life balance at Facebook?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#178
post #162

Could someone explain to me why so many people on here fetishize scale? Scale is a constraint on a problem, and it affects the solution you come up with. I don't understand why solving problems around that constraint is considered cooler than solving problems around other constraints like uptime, performance, memory cost, etc. Does "Our API serves 234 million requests" hold more cachet than "Our medical device firmwa…

In my experience it's a fun problem to solve. An engineer gets to design complex architectural solutions, acquire hardware, work with various database solutions, and generally work on larger problem domain than the problems you mentioned. Uptime, performance, and memory are all very important problems but you rarely get to venture outside of the current code base when solving those problems.

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#179
post #114

I am surprised that no one mentioned Microsoft so far. These days they are professional, innovation-driven, and do not bring in much of the unnecessary cult that comes with companies like Google. They are more open than Apple. Also from a personal experience I think their interviews / hiring methods are better than all of the other big players.

But are their engineering practices better? They used to take test seriously, but then they fired all the testers and quality of basic things has slipped. They don't even hire for dedicated testing roles any more. I get that devs are supposed to test their own code, but they are surprisingly bad at it overall and unit tests, despite being a great meme, just don't cut it. Some examples of quality issues: new limit to…

A problem with assessing Microsoft's engineering culture and practices is that at Microsoft is there is no consistent unifying set of engineering practices. Product teams need to comply with some standard processes around security and the like, but as to how they run their teams they are allowed to chart their own course, more or less.

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being ethical? Maybe the engineers need to have some ethics but not all products do.

I am assuming you are talking about privacy issues. Google collects a lot of data, but is very thoughtful about how they use it, who has access to it and gives users options to view and delete it.

That is what I was referring to. They take measures like you said, but do non-technical people even know about it? It is not advertised as far as I know.
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