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Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

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Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#121

Post by Bahamut »

mattmanser wrote: post #89
danpalmer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've spoken to Facebook engineers who work on their internal source control systems, and it was pretty obvious from talking to them that Git wouldn't work for their purposes. There is plenty of writing about this topic that explains in some detail why Git is unsuitable, and why Mercurial was a better option for them. As for the 18k classes in their iOS app, I don't see why this is a sign of bad engineering? I'd expec…

It's nothing more complex than 100,000s of other apps out there. Yet somehow they managed to create 18k classes? Scale is handled at the back-end.

That's not quite true - frontend has to scale for features.

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#122

Post by ma2rten »

United857 wrote: post #22

I'm biased, but I'd say out of all the "big" tech companies, FB has the best engineering culture. * With few exceptions, engineers aren't hired for a specific team; they go through bootcamp where they get exposure to all parts of the stack and tasks from different teams. * Ideas usually come from engineers. Managers are there to be a sounding board/connect you with people resources as needed. * Moving fast is valued…

All these things also apply to Google, except:

* you decide on a team before you start, but after you know you passed the interview

* moving fast is not valued as much

I would also add that Facebook uses a lot of Open Source, meaning your experience will be applicable elsewhere.

Here are some potential advantages about working at Google:

* Being ethical is a core value of the company.

* Google/Alphabet is more diverse (Search, YouTube, Android, Hardware, DeepMind, Waymo ...) and has more offices worldwide.

* It has an advantage in Machine Learning and Research. Google even has an internal research conference.

* Google even has it's own incubator for entrepreneurial employees (Area 120).

* Google is trying hard to make it's hiring and promotion process objective and unbiased. That's why they happen by a commission of peers.

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#123

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

FlorianRappl wrote: post #49

I am surprised that no one mentioned Microsoft so far. These days they are professional, innovation-driven, and do not bring in much of the unnecessary cult that comes with companies like Google. They are more open than Apple. Also from a personal experience I think their interviews / hiring methods are better than all of the other big players.

Microsoft is one of the few places where you can pretty much switch to using any part of your CS degree just by making an internal transfer. Operating systems? Compilers? Consumer applications? Cloud infrastructure? Search engines? Games and console development? Embedded devices? Database engines? CS research? All there in one place. Only Google and Amazon come close but Google is 90% search and ads and Amazon is 90% cloud and retailing with all other areas being small side projects for them.

The downsides are the mega-corporate culture, with all the bureaucratic dysfunction and vicious internal politics that entails (it's not quite IBM but not for lack of trying), that its famed private offices are gradually shrinking / going away, and the pay is decent but not amazing. And obviously if you rabidly dislike the MS software stack, you won't like it there.

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#124

Post by Bahamut »

bluebknight wrote: post #41
United857 wrote: post #22

I'm biased, but I'd say out of all the "big" tech companies, FB has the best engineering culture. * With few exceptions, engineers aren't hired for a specific team; they go through bootcamp where they get exposure to all parts of the stack and tasks from different teams. * Ideas usually come from engineers. Managers are there to be a sounding board/connect you with people resources as needed. * Moving fast is valued…

It sounds like a great place to work at. Kinda sucks that, they only interview new grads from top schools unlike the other Big 4.

I've interviewed at Facebook 2 1/2 years into my career and have an open invitation to interview whenever I want without having gone to a tier 1 university for undergrad or grad (although I went to a prestigious program for grad math, UIUC) - my education turns out to be a poor indicator of what I can do.

A caveat is that I originally entered FB's pipeline through a referral from a friend who interned and works at FB right out of CMU computer engineering. Referrals are often enough at these big tech companies.

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#125

Post by bshimmin »

knocte wrote: post #104
jacques_chester wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which product? We have a hand in quite a few these days, most notably Pivotal Cloud Foundry.

The Trello clone.

...(Pivotal Tracker) which predates Trello by some years!

That said, I never much enjoyed using Pivotal Tracker, and Trello seems to do more or less everything it does but in a nicer and more client-friendly way.

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#126

Post by newscracker »

United857 wrote: post #22

I'm biased, but I'd say out of all the "big" tech companies, FB has the best engineering culture. * With few exceptions, engineers aren't hired for a specific team; they go through bootcamp where they get exposure to all parts of the stack and tasks from different teams. * Ideas usually come from engineers. Managers are there to be a sounding board/connect you with people resources as needed. * Moving fast is valued…

> * With only very few exceptions, every engineer has access to the near-entirety of source code at FB (Oculus, Whatsapp, Instagram...).

Sorry, this could be slightly off topic for this thread. I'm curious if this kind of access also applies to all the data that users put up on the platforms? To put it in other words, how does FB prevent or work to prevent LOVINT [1] like cases? If it's the same kind of access, wouldn't working in the company make the employee uncomfortable that there are people who can look at all information?

[1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2013/08/24...

P.S./disclaimer: I personally dislike FB as a platform and as a company for privacy and other policy reasons I don't agree with (like "authentic names", for one). So my bias may be showing in my question, although it's intended to know more and not meant as an attack.

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#127

Post by treehau5 »

akerro wrote: post #44
United857 wrote: post #22

I'm biased, but I'd say out of all the "big" tech companies, FB has the best engineering culture. * With few exceptions, engineers aren't hired for a specific team; they go through bootcamp where they get exposure to all parts of the stack and tasks from different teams. * Ideas usually come from engineers. Managers are there to be a sounding board/connect you with people resources as needed. * Moving fast is valued…

I think Facebook has very poor engineering culture. They built their iOS app with 18k classes, then claim that iOS and Git can't handle their 'scale'. Let's avoid putting here obvious companies and companies who over-engineer, maybe? http://quellish.tumblr.com/post/126712999812/how-on-earth-th... https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3m5n2n/faceboo...

The first tumblr link at the bottom in the comments linked me to FizzBuzz Enterprise Edition

https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpris...

Re: Ask HN: What current companies have the best software engineering culture?

#129

Post by mi100hael »

danpalmer wrote: post #47
akerro wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Facebook has very poor engineering culture. They built their iOS app with 18k classes, then claim that iOS and Git can't handle their 'scale'. Let's avoid putting here obvious companies and companies who over-engineer, maybe? http://quellish.tumblr.com/post/126712999812/how-on-earth-th... https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3m5n2n/faceboo...

I've spoken to Facebook engineers who work on their internal source control systems, and it was pretty obvious from talking to them that Git wouldn't work for their purposes. There is plenty of writing about this topic that explains in some detail why Git is unsuitable, and why Mercurial was a better option for them. As for the 18k classes in their iOS app, I don't see why this is a sign of bad engineering? I'd expec…

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