Feudal society should have Wealth tax, not Income tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_india
The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income
21–30 of 187 posts
Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll take liberty to correct your perspective: A demonetization move that directly affected livelihood of billion Indians, with a possibility of large-scale riots, but ended with only 100 deaths. I don't see how it cannot be termed a success. Can you think of any major move that directly affected the entire country but did not end in large scale riots? If you need to understand what a "hasty decision" means take a lo…
Let's compare that figure to say fatal accidents in Kathipara Junction, Chennai. It used to average more than one a day. OP is cherry picking.
Just because there are deaths caused somewhere else doesn't legitimize these deaths. This is human life we are talking about mate. That's a basic logical fallacy, which seems to be the favorite tool in debates for supporters of the current government[1].
TBH if you spent 3600 Crore meant for a statue [2] for railway safety (and not just some namesake program but actual on the ground change), which I agree needs a upheavel, I'd be a much happier citizen of the country.
[1] https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque [2] https://www.thequint.com/india/2016/12/24/mumbai-protest-360...
Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income
#23UBI will provide impetus to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility due to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_politics_in_India
Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income
#24Have there been any studies on the impact to prices on staple foods?
Because if everyone can afford food and basic items for living, does that mean the prices for these items will go sky high? Especially as supply will be short of demand?
Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because no money is being created, it's being reallocated from other people, so it doesn't directly affect the money supply. The recipients are more likely to spend it, which creates some demand (and thus inflation), but it should still be less than the increase in spending power it provides them.
"Because no money is being created, it's being reallocated from other people, so it doesn't directly affect the money supply." And unfortunately that is bunkum. Money isn't stuff. If you take what is currently savings and put it into flow then you will get an increase in production - that is then effectively taken away and given to people who haven't earned it. The result is, over time, an increase in political press…
I'm curious, what do you think should happen to someone who becomes unemployed and then runs through all of their savings?
Should they live on the street until they find another job?
Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income
#26I just don't see how it won't cause massive inflation. basically to the point that the payout is practically worthless.
Every basic income story has an inflation comment. Think in terms of proportion of wealth helps. If a company issues new shares and gives it X(analogy to govt printing money), the overall dilution in value of share doesn't prevent that the wealth of X from going up. For instance, giving 100% new shares of a 10 million dollars company to X means each share has half of the old value, but X has nevertheless gained 5 mil…
The argument for inflation is simple. You are giving goods and services to people, who then also self consume their own labour. So they get paid twice in real terms.
If they worked for a living they would get paid once, and their output would return to the social pool.
Since the social pool ends up less than the counterfactual, and there is more money chasing it you have inflation. Those working get fed up with that and agitate to have the scheme ended,
And that is why income guarantee schemes fail. They never appreciate that money and stuff are two totally separate circuits that only have an inductive connection.
Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income
#27After the recent Demonetization brouhaha, which led to over a 100 deaths[1], most of them from the lower strata of society, it makes sense for the current government to start off UBI whole heartedly, especially since they can tie in the entire demonetization/cashless economy/jan dhan etc. stories together. However, I sincerely hope that the execution is well planned, rather than hasty. This article though seems to be…
I'll take liberty to correct your perspective: A demonetization move that directly affected livelihood of billion Indians, with a possibility of large-scale riots, but ended with only 100 deaths. I don't see how it cannot be termed a success. Can you think of any major move that directly affected the entire country but did not end in large scale riots? If you need to understand what a "hasty decision" means take a lo…
> I don't see how it cannot
> be termed a success
If not, the last few days of pounding payment in Jodhpur trying to find working ATMs, and being stuck for 30m in queues when they finally got their money delivered all seems in vain. That, and, you know, the 100 deaths.
Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every basic income story has an inflation comment. Think in terms of proportion of wealth helps. If a company issues new shares and gives it X(analogy to govt printing money), the overall dilution in value of share doesn't prevent that the wealth of X from going up. For instance, giving 100% new shares of a 10 million dollars company to X means each share has half of the old value, but X has nevertheless gained 5 mil…
The argument for inflation is simple. You are giving goods and services to people, who then also self consume their own labour. So they get paid twice in real terms. If they worked for a living they would get paid once, and their output would return to the social pool. Since the social pool ends up less than the counterfactual, and there is more money chasing it you have inflation. Those working get fed up with that…
Ok, this is another argument for inflation depending on the reduction of work incentives after basic income. So lower amount of output is distributed among same number of people causing inflation.
But for making this argument, you will have to explain why increasing wages doesnt have the same effect as supplementing labour income with an extra stipend. After all, we are talking about basic income, ie a low amount. In this case it is even more modest (my guess is around 50$ or so a month).
To make this argument in general, you would need some idea of how large this work disincentive effect is. Remember there are many positive effects as well - the security of income means that someone doesnt need to do drastic stuff like selling off capital(for instance, cutting short training and taking up a job immediately) in bad times or becoming indebted due to basic necessities.
Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income
#29After the recent Demonetization brouhaha, which led to over a 100 deaths[1], most of them from the lower strata of society, it makes sense for the current government to start off UBI whole heartedly, especially since they can tie in the entire demonetization/cashless economy/jan dhan etc. stories together. However, I sincerely hope that the execution is well planned, rather than hasty. This article though seems to be…
I'll take liberty to correct your perspective: A demonetization move that directly affected livelihood of billion Indians, with a possibility of large-scale riots, but ended with only 100 deaths. I don't see how it cannot be termed a success. Can you think of any major move that directly affected the entire country but did not end in large scale riots? If you need to understand what a "hasty decision" means take a lo…
Your metric for success seems to be "not enough people died relative to previous such moves, hence its a success", which is rather morbid.
Also your point about "major move that directly affected the entire country but did not end in large scale riots" is vague in its definition of "major move". During the partition, people were forced to leave their homes, belongings, ALL material wealth in the name of religion/politics/whatever and move to a different location in fear for their lives and the lives of their loved ones.
Does demonetization compare to this?
During demonetization, among other things, all the honest Indian had to do was wait in long queues to exchange cash (which is not convenient by all means - its very very harrowing), and the dishonest Indian figured out how to convert their cash to the new currency through the black market.
We can debate about the pros and (many many more) cons about demonetization, but thats another topic. Overall, India today is very different from the India 70 years ago when the partition took place, so I disagree with your comparison as well as your metric for success.
Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
How are they getting what they want? What communists (and in a lesser sense, socialist countries) want is less of a chasm between the lower and upper echelons of society. Just this day it was posted on Reddit that a top London banking boss will already have made more since the start of the year than an average worker will the entire year (!!). All UBI does is make sure everyone has a baseline to live from. That's gre…
>That's great, but its just a sedative for the masses. As opposed to the great energy drink of communism?
No, and some difference will always be there. That's healthy - it aspires people to be more. But I'd like it to be more like Star-Trek: people work hard and achieve things for the prestige. If you become captain of a star ship, you're admired, and you (for example) still get more pretty ladies fawning after you than the helm officer. And he does so more than a dude who wants to do nothing but play GTA:XXIV on the Holodeck. But that dude can get the same food, education and modes of transport as the captain, if he so desires.