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First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

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Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#21

Post by CaliforniaKarl »

martinald wrote: post #13
samhamilton wrote: post #7

I would guess that this is rolling out just for the PR, the sheer number of trains needed to replace one decent sized container ship just makes this all prohibitive to ever replace much sea freight plus launching when there is a glut of container ships floating around as well, which is keeping the price lower than most ship owners can breakeven. Ok so it's quicker, but it's not that quick. The only winners would be t…

Agreed. I really can't see this being a success for anything more than PR. If you need it ASAP, you're going to use airfreight. If you don't you're going to have it by sea. I don't see much of a need for something in between those two timeframes. Anyone specialised in logistics care to comment if there is an actual market here?

There are people who want more than just the within-a-day (air) or within-a-month (sea) options. When you ship something cross-country (for the US) by Ground, that's going by train for most of the journey.

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#22

Post by niftich »

zhte415 wrote: post #20

This is about opening up Central Asia to China soft power. Rail is the only means Central Asia going to trade (export/import) anything, and strengthens China's West, Xinjiang, etc.

This, and other geopolitical implications. The 'New Silk Road' effort has been China's focus for a while, and envisions two corridors along which overland trade can flow: the status quo through Russia, and an alternate one to the south that avoids Russia and remains resilient should their partnership sour.

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#25

Post by sbierwagen »

pasta wrote: post #19
ekianjo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if that is the case you use airfreight.

It depends. A big airplane can carry like 20,000 kg total. This is the weight that fits in most containers. So its the airfreight cost vs the waiting cost.

An airframe isn't going to fit inside an ISO container

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#26

Post by jakozaur »

Some more detail articles about current China Europe regular train connection (actually it goes weekly to Poland): http://postandparcel.info/56547/news/innovation/dhl-launches...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/06/28/what-the-...

It make sense for goods that sending them by air is too expensive, but they are too time sensitive to send them by ship. It takes a day by plane, 14 days by train, 45 days by the ship. I would expect in good scenario that train would be somewhat similar popular as air, but nowhere near close volume as by sea.

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#27

Post by paradite »

samhamilton wrote: post #7

I would guess that this is rolling out just for the PR, the sheer number of trains needed to replace one decent sized container ship just makes this all prohibitive to ever replace much sea freight plus launching when there is a glut of container ships floating around as well, which is keeping the price lower than most ship owners can breakeven. Ok so it's quicker, but it's not that quick. The only winners would be t…

For anyone looking for a quick answer, this is from the 4th paragraph in the article:

While the train can carry about 200 containers, versus 20,000 on a large cargo vessel, the trip takes about half as long as a 30-day sailing between East Asia and northern Europe. That will make rail a competitive option when maritime shipments are held up or miss the booked departure, especially compared with airfreight, which costs twice as much, according to Michael White, operations director at Brunel Shipping, the U.K. booking agent for the service.

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#28

Post by CaliforniaKarl »

MengerSponge wrote: post #2

Does anyone know how the train compares to ships wrt CO2/kg shipped? I'm sure the train comes out on top, but by how much? Also, how frequently could one of those trains run?

How frequently? If this was a dedicated, two-track main line, then standing trackside I'd expect to see one train coming in each direction every 20 minutes. Of course, that depends on having massive infrastructure at each end to service those trains. To see an example of that in action in the US, head to LA, and take Amtrack or Metrolink to Fullerton station, paying attention to BNSF's facilities in LA County. Then, hang out at Fullerton for a few hours, taking note of the number (and length) of trains.

More likely, you'll see one train per day, mainly because of choke points like the Eurotunnel. It's also likely that cargo will have to be moved around at least once, since rolling stock (train cars, etc.) aren't normally certified for high-speed running. Plus, you've got a mix of at least high-voltage AC (for Eurotunnel) and diesel, so there would be engine changes. Plus, many USSR countries aren't on "standard gauge", so you either need rolling stock with wheel sets of different gauges (widths), or you need to move cargo at specific transfer points.

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#29

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

martinald wrote: post #13
samhamilton wrote: post #7

I would guess that this is rolling out just for the PR, the sheer number of trains needed to replace one decent sized container ship just makes this all prohibitive to ever replace much sea freight plus launching when there is a glut of container ships floating around as well, which is keeping the price lower than most ship owners can breakeven. Ok so it's quicker, but it's not that quick. The only winners would be t…

Agreed. I really can't see this being a success for anything more than PR. If you need it ASAP, you're going to use airfreight. If you don't you're going to have it by sea. I don't see much of a need for something in between those two timeframes. Anyone specialised in logistics care to comment if there is an actual market here?

I'm not into logistics, but following this out of curiosity. In Germany this started in 2008, and didn't make sense to me either. Got aware of it because the local press covered it. (Sorry for the german links) http://www.mopo.de/peking-hamburg-container-express-der-mons... , http://www.mopo.de/-trans-eurasia-express-hier-kommt-der-xxl... Then over the years, it was busisness as usual, slowly expanding: http://www.wiwo.de/unternehmen/dienstleister/china-zug-deuts... , http://www.dbschenker.com/ho-de/news_media/presse/corporate-..., https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article118648469/Neue-Bahnver... , https://www.welt.de/regionales/duesseldorf/article126318669/... , http://www.transa.dbschenker.de/log-transa-de/start/China_Co... , http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/von-westeuropa-nach-ch... ,https://www.deutschland.de/de/topic/wirtschaft/globalisierun...

The gist of all that german garble is that it is about twice the speed of sea freight, measured "door to door", while costing only half as much as air freight, but twice that of sea freight. co² emission is calculated as half of that of sea freight, and 25 times less than air freight. In 2016 they shipped somewhat over 40.000 containers in about 400 trains, which carry about 50 containers per train.

The NYT covered this in 2013 with an interactive feature: http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/07/21/silk-road/ http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/business/global/hauling-ne...

hth

almost forgotten: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Eurasia_Logistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chongqing-Xinjiang-Europe_Rail...

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#30

Post by hueving »

sbierwagen wrote: post #25
pasta wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. A big airplane can carry like 20,000 kg total. This is the weight that fits in most containers. So its the airfreight cost vs the waiting cost.

An airframe isn't going to fit inside an ISO container

Who said anything about putting an airframe in a container?
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