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Show HN: Explore ideas whose patent protection expires today

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Re: Show HN: Explore ideas whose patent protection expires today

#111

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

cr0sh wrote: post #53
taejo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike copyrights, patents don't have an invariable lifetime: they have to be renewed, usually for an increasing fee. In the US, the schedule of maintenance fees is: (A) Three years and 6 months after grant, $980. (B) Seven years and 6 months after grant, $2,480. (C) Eleven years and 6 months after grant, $4,110. This allows patents that are not being profitably exploited to lapse early.

> This allows patents that are not being profitably exploited to lapse early It also allows larger companies to sit back, and wait out small inventors to "give up" on a patent (due to it becoming too expensive to renew) that they are trying to sell to these same companies. You might ask, though, why would somebody invent something that they didn't then market and manufacture themselves? Well - it happens, more often…

It also allows larger companies to sit back, and wait out small inventors to "give up" on a patent (due to it becoming too expensive to renew) that they are trying to sell to these same companies

This does not seem realistic. If you can't afford the $900 to renew a patent after 3 years, you likely can't afford to produce the patented device either.

Further, your example doesn't hold water. If I'm (an executive at) Toyota, and someone offers to license or sell outright a patent for $X, I stand to make $ZX if I agree to it, or $0 for 20 years if I don't.

So either $ZX isn't enough profit to move my needle, or I flat out just don't care about the product. Either way, I have no interest in pursuing it. It's not about "saving money:" even in the most old-school of industries, I can't imagine that waiting 20 years for an unrealized patent to expire makes any sense if it would be profitable to license it.

It's far more likely that either (a) the patent isn't particularly useful or (b) the owner is asking too high a license fee.

Re: Show HN: Explore ideas whose patent protection expires today

#112

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

miguelrochefort wrote: post #65
cr0sh wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about a lot of inventions is that they do sometimes look "trivial" after the fact; in other words, things look really simple once its been done! Most inventions (and patents reflect this) are actually small improvements to certain parts of other inventions, which improve the system in such a manner as to be considered a patentable item of their own. As such, they tend to be small things, which when you look…

I once designed a system that, I latter realized, would infringe over 100 patents. Am I supposed to make my design worse just because other people thought of these things first?

No. You make it even better by working around those patents.

Re: Show HN: Explore ideas whose patent protection expires today

#115

Post by abecedarius »

coldpie wrote: post #93
wetherbeei wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run Google Patents (patents.google.com) - we've thought about including a way to search by expired patents (we have the expiration indicators), but in my opinion it gives a false sense of security. There's also http://freeip.mtu.edu/home/index.php , which searches over only expired patents. The patent in question could have been improved upon, and that improvement can still be in force. Say someone patents a widget…

> Say someone patents a widget A + B, and later files a continuation A + B + C ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_patent_application ). The first patent could be expired, but while building your copy of A + B you might come to the same conclusion that the invention also needs to include C (which is still in force) to actually work. This is a perfect example of why patents are harmful. The patent on C did not…

This solar sail patent http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=H... was educational to me (at some other site which showed the figures too) -- but it's literally the only time that's ever happened in my multi-decade career. It's written in a more helpful style than usual, and undoubtedly never saw commercial use in its lifetime. I would not have even looked if it were a patent in my own field.

Re: Show HN: Explore ideas whose patent protection expires today

#117

Post by bbcbasic »

miguelrochefort wrote: post #64
st3v3r wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They seem trivial now, 20 some odd years after the fact.

I once wanted to build a system, and decided to browse through patents. I realized that my system would easily infringe 100+ of patents. Many of them were actually very recent.

What if my human body infringes a parent?

Re: Show HN: Explore ideas whose patent protection expires today

#118

Post by ajkjk »

kevinwang wrote: post #102
coldpie wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Say someone patents a widget A + B, and later files a continuation A + B + C ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_patent_application ). The first patent could be expired, but while building your copy of A + B you might come to the same conclusion that the invention also needs to include C (which is still in force) to actually work. This is a perfect example of why patents are harmful. The patent on C did not…

Without patents, inventing would not be profitable. All products would have exact copycats and ripoffs.

I don't think I believe you. That's the theory of course, but I haven't lived in a society without patents so I can only trust people who say that's how it works.

My mental heuristic says that software engineering seems like it would be only improved by patents not existing. I can't speak to hardware inventions, though.

Re: Show HN: Explore ideas whose patent protection expires today

#119

Post by [deleted] »

kevinwang wrote: post #102
coldpie wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Say someone patents a widget A + B, and later files a continuation A + B + C ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_patent_application ). The first patent could be expired, but while building your copy of A + B you might come to the same conclusion that the invention also needs to include C (which is still in force) to actually work. This is a perfect example of why patents are harmful. The patent on C did not…

Without patents, inventing would not be profitable. All products would have exact copycats and ripoffs.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Explore ideas whose patent protection expires today

#120

Post by ghayes »

kevinwang wrote: post #102
coldpie wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Say someone patents a widget A + B, and later files a continuation A + B + C ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_patent_application ). The first patent could be expired, but while building your copy of A + B you might come to the same conclusion that the invention also needs to include C (which is still in force) to actually work. This is a perfect example of why patents are harmful. The patent on C did not…

Without patents, inventing would not be profitable. All products would have exact copycats and ripoffs.

The majority of software companies don't hold any patents (aside of copyrights). As such, it doesn't seem necessary that patents are the only means to profit from "inventing."
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