Welding is not a routine job. Good welders make pretty good money.
Welding is also just about the least middle-class job I can think of.
‘Routine’ Jobs Are Disappearing
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Re: ‘Routine’ Jobs Are Disappearing
#42This is, for society at the very least, a "good thing". Who's dream is it to perform a "relatively narrow set of repeated tasks" for 8 hours a day? As mentioned, take these "prime aged workers" teach them skills, and suddenly we have a spike in actually valuable labour instead of a middle class of unfulfilled office drones stuck in a stupor. IMO, the framing should be look at this amazing business opportunity to onbo…
This is anecdotal evidence from conversations I've had but it has been recurring. A portion of the 18-50 "prime aged workers" believe that when people say "teach them skills" or "provide continuing education" they take it as being told they're stupid. Which, to me, is a viewpoint that makes sense. They are the group that completed high-school and went straight into the workforce or didn't complete high-school at all.…
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Re: ‘Routine’ Jobs Are Disappearing
#43Welding is not a routine job. Good welders make pretty good money.
Routine doesn't necessarily mean low skill or low pay, it just means that you do pretty much the same thing from day to day. There are probably surgeons out there who have fairly routine jobs, make half a million dollars a year doing it, and earn every penny.
I'd add that there are a fair number of jobs that are pretty routine--until they're not. (At least today, pilots are a good example.)
Re: ‘Routine’ Jobs Are Disappearing
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
When will renewable be cheaper, though?
Already is: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-15/world-ene... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-03/for-cheap...
That is not a complete Electrical system, just the panels which are only cheaper in area's with ideal solar output. Go north where there is less sun, and more clouds and the cost starts to rise fast, further Electrical Storage is a major concern since solar only works at most 12 hours a day, you have to something about the other 12.
So no Solar is not cheaper when looked at in total cost to supply useable power to people 24/7
Further the cost of Coal is higher today largely because of artificial fees places on it in the form of Carbon Taxes, EPA regulations, etc. While I agree many of these are needed and benifitial to the long term it is this has to be factored in to the statement that Solar is "cheaper"
if the government adds all kinds of fees to everything but solar of course solar will be cheaper, but that is an Artificial Result created by government intervention in the market place not technology. The draw back of this is that increases the price of power for everyone and that hits poor people the hardest when their power bills double because of some new EPA Regulations
Re: ‘Routine’ Jobs Are Disappearing
#45This is, for society at the very least, a "good thing". Who's dream is it to perform a "relatively narrow set of repeated tasks" for 8 hours a day? As mentioned, take these "prime aged workers" teach them skills, and suddenly we have a spike in actually valuable labour instead of a middle class of unfulfilled office drones stuck in a stupor. IMO, the framing should be look at this amazing business opportunity to onbo…
That would be certainly be a nice thing. But I think the BIG problem here is the part where you "teach them skills". What skills? who will teach these skills? and most importantly who will pay to teach these skills?
And even more importantly who will trust these "skills" taught by a probably artificial and minimal re-education program enough to hire them?
This stuff has been and is tried all the time and doesn't typically work out. It needs a major rethink if we're to invest substantially in them.
Re: ‘Routine’ Jobs Are Disappearing
#46It is interesting that the people who are losing jobs aren't retraining. What exactly is Trump/Republican party going to do to help with that? Bring back Coal when renewable is cheaper?
Probably dead nothing and then blame liberals and Mexicans again in 4 years when everything has got worse.
You assume that blame would be misplaced? Liberals tossed workers and organized labor overboard ~30 years ago: http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/11/23/yes-democratic-...
Re: ‘Routine’ Jobs Are Disappearing
#47This is, for society at the very least, a "good thing". Who's dream is it to perform a "relatively narrow set of repeated tasks" for 8 hours a day? As mentioned, take these "prime aged workers" teach them skills, and suddenly we have a spike in actually valuable labour instead of a middle class of unfulfilled office drones stuck in a stupor. IMO, the framing should be look at this amazing business opportunity to onbo…
> This is, for society at the very least, a "good thing". That depends on if you live in a society that believes people should be free to pursue their 'dreams' or in one that uses work as a measure of a persons worth. The US is the latter.
What's an example of the former?
Re: ‘Routine’ Jobs Are Disappearing
#48"To counter these trends, the U.S. must invest in raising the skills of the workers most likely to be affected by the disappearance of routine jobs..." Not sure how's that going to play out for example a welding machine operator can't become a mechanical engineer in a short span of time because those routine jobs are eventually going to be consumed by automated robots, per this study. Why not motivate people to look…
And for a welding operator to become a physical therapist is an even larger leap. Also, there's also a lot of resistance (and prejudice) in going from blue-collar to pink-collar, partly because care and health services are seem as feminine jobs(except doctors, of course).
Are there any programs to help get men into nursing and similar professions? That seems like a great idea.
Re: ‘Routine’ Jobs Are Disappearing
#49Hasn't this been a recognized trend since the "jobless recovery" of 2009?
The actual research finds that this is a phenomenon associated with every jobless recovery (there have been 3 in the last 40 years or so): each time there's a recession that ends without restoring pre-recession jobs, the routine manual job market appears to take a permanent hit.
Here's the chart from an earlier paper by the same authors:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/782zelpi8r2nwua/Screenshot%202017-...
So a big question here is about causality. It's possible (maybe probable) that the phenomenon of long term declines in routine manual jobs is in fact the cause of jobless recoveries: it creates a ratcheting effect at each recession.
Re: ‘Routine’ Jobs Are Disappearing
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
And for a welding operator to become a physical therapist is an even larger leap. Also, there's also a lot of resistance (and prejudice) in going from blue-collar to pink-collar, partly because care and health services are seem as feminine jobs(except doctors, of course).
Hard to have much sympathy for someone who's strangling themselves with their own gender stereotypes.
Often times it's not the worker that strangle themselves. I remember reading some years ago (can't remember where) about the struggles that male nurses have. Male patients often refuse male nurses as they don't want another male to see their bodies, and female patients will refuse male nurses out of modesty. And, according to the same source the problem only intensifies as the male nurse gets older.