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US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

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Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#101

Post by lern_too_spel »

Natsu wrote: post #100
lern_too_spel wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand the difference between case law and statutory law. You are citing statutory law. The law as it stands is statutory law (how the law is written) amended by case law (how the courts have interpreted it). As I stated, case law as of Gorin v. United States invalidates the sections you cited and requires scienter.

Then look at this case which cites it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Jin-Woo_Kim The indictment is here: https://fas.org/sgp/jud/kim/082411-order.pdf "Kim had a reason to believe that this information could be used to the injury of the United States and to the advantage of a foreign nation" There was a TS picture of NK on there. Huma Abadeen had access to her device (someone who was born in the USA, but raise…

> They should have the ability to prosecute her for all of the false statements made during the investigation (which would be under a completely different statute).

What false statements did she make under oath during the investigation? Comey specifically said that they have no evidence that she lied to the FBI. http://www.politico.com/blogs/james-comey-testimony/2016/07/...

> There was a TS picture of NK on there. Huma Abadeen [sic] had access to her device (someone who was born in the USA, but raised in Saudi Arabia) as evidenced by signatures on some emails "from" Hillary.

Why mention that she was raised in Saudi Arabia? She is a US citizen who obtained security clearance in 2009, during which the FBI would have thoroughly checked her background. Before you go even further off the reservation, she doesn't have ties to the Muslim Brotherhood either. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/...

Let's look at the Kim case because the indictment so clearly draws out the difference with the Clinton case. From the indictment:

"The indictment charges that Kim had a reason to believe that this information could be used to the injury of the United States and to the advantage of a foreign nation and that Kim knowingly and willfully communicated, delivered or transmitted that information to a reporter for a national news organization, who was not entitled to receive that information."

It continues:

"Count Two of the indictment charges that on or about September 24, 2009, Kim denied to agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation that he had had any contact with a named reporter for a national news organization since meeting the reporter in or about March 2009. The indictment alleges that Kim actually had repeated contact with the reporter in the months following the March 2009 meeting. The indictment charges that Kim knowingly and willfully made a materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statement and representation to the FBI in violation of I8 U.S.C. § IOOI(a)(2)."

Kim knew that giving the national security information to a reporter would get that information seen by a foreign nation to its benefit (violation of the Espionage Act). Then he lied about it to the FBI (violation of I8 U.S.C. § IOOI(a)(2)). Clinton did neither.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#102

Post by Natsu »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #101
Natsu wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then look at this case which cites it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Jin-Woo_Kim The indictment is here: https://fas.org/sgp/jud/kim/082411-order.pdf "Kim had a reason to believe that this information could be used to the injury of the United States and to the advantage of a foreign nation" There was a TS picture of NK on there. Huma Abadeen had access to her device (someone who was born in the USA, but raise…

> They should have the ability to prosecute her for all of the false statements made during the investigation (which would be under a completely different statute). What false statements did she make under oath during the investigation? Comey specifically said that they have no evidence that she lied to the FBI. http://www.politico.com/blogs/james-comey-testimony/2016/07/... > There was a TS picture of NK on there. H…

Gowdy discusses quite a few such statements with Comey here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC1Mc6-RDyQ

> Why mention that she was raised in Saudi Arabia?

Because it shows how easily the information could escape the US to other countries, even inadvertently. I haven't claimed anything regarding the Muslim Brotherhood, nor was I aware it had been claimed regarding her.

> Kim knew that giving the national security information to a reporter would get that information seen by a foreign nation to its benefit (violation of the Espionage Act). Then he lied about it to the FBI (violation of I8 U.S.C. § IOOI(a)(2)). Clinton did neither.

That North Korean photo we're talking about was discussed with one of her press guys and none of these people who accessed this were cleared for TS information other than Hillary herself. Huma was found emailing Wiener from Hillary's device in at least one case (probably how his laptop got roped into that).

Incidentally, here's the warrant for Wiener's laptop (which mentions all the TS info on this uncleared server, among other things): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1NKixAl7kHoVmp5MkFfTEgwc2s...

And here's the email where they discuss the NK photo they were worried about: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/10587

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#103

Post by Toe-Rag »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #94
Toe-Rag wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intent to harm the United States (or another nation) was not the intent Comey was looking for. It was intent to share national security information with people not authorized to receive it.

And what law would that be a violation of? The only law requiring intent that was under investigation was the Espionage Act, and I have given you the text that describes what intent is required.

The statute - 18 U.S.C. Section 793(f) - says nothing about intent. Comey read it in as a requirement for launching a prosecution. The intent he thought was required was as I described, not intent to harm the United States.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#104

Post by lern_too_spel »

Toe-Rag wrote: post #103
lern_too_spel wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what law would that be a violation of? The only law requiring intent that was under investigation was the Espionage Act, and I have given you the text that describes what intent is required.

The statute - 18 U.S.C. Section 793(f) - says nothing about intent. Comey read it in as a requirement for launching a prosecution. The intent he thought was required was as I described, not intent to harm the United States.

> The intent he thought was required was as I described

Again, cite the law. It doesn't exist.

> The statute - 18 U.S.C. Section 793(f) - says nothing about intent.

Again, that section was anulled by case law, in particular Gorin v. United States, which establishes the bright line of scienter for applying this law. That is why Comey said that no prosecutor would bring this charge.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#105

Post by lern_too_spel »

Natsu wrote: post #102
lern_too_spel wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They should have the ability to prosecute her for all of the false statements made during the investigation (which would be under a completely different statute). What false statements did she make under oath during the investigation? Comey specifically said that they have no evidence that she lied to the FBI. http://www.politico.com/blogs/james-comey-testimony/2016/07/... > There was a TS picture of NK on there. H…

Gowdy discusses quite a few such statements with Comey here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC1Mc6-RDyQ > Why mention that she was raised in Saudi Arabia? Because it shows how easily the information could escape the US to other countries, even inadvertently. I haven't claimed anything regarding the Muslim Brotherhood, nor was I aware it had been claimed regarding her. > Kim knew that giving the national security inf…

> Gowdy discusses quite a few such statements with Comey here:

Again, none of those statements were made to the investigators or under oath.

> Because it shows how easily the information could escape the US to other countries, even inadvertently.

Again, that is the FBI's job to determine when doing the security clearance background check.

> That North Korean photo we're talking about was discussed with one of her press guys and none of these people who accessed this were cleared for TS information other than Hillary herself.

What North Korean photo are we talking about? This is the first time you've mentioned it. I suspect you are talking about http://www.wptv.com/news/political/clinton-email-on-north-ko..., which was neither Top Secret nor sent to a news reporter. If it wasn't sent to a news reporter, why do you think this email is anything at all like Kim's case?

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#106

Post by lern_too_spel »

Natsu wrote: post #102
lern_too_spel wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They should have the ability to prosecute her for all of the false statements made during the investigation (which would be under a completely different statute). What false statements did she make under oath during the investigation? Comey specifically said that they have no evidence that she lied to the FBI. http://www.politico.com/blogs/james-comey-testimony/2016/07/... > There was a TS picture of NK on there. H…

Gowdy discusses quite a few such statements with Comey here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC1Mc6-RDyQ > Why mention that she was raised in Saudi Arabia? Because it shows how easily the information could escape the US to other countries, even inadvertently. I haven't claimed anything regarding the Muslim Brotherhood, nor was I aware it had been claimed regarding her. > Kim knew that giving the national security inf…

> Gowdy discusses quite a few such statements with Comey here:

Again, none of those statements were made to the investigators or under oath.

> Because it shows how easily the information could escape the US to other countries, even inadvertently.

Again, that is the FBI's job to determine when doing the security clearance background check.

> That North Korean photo we're talking about was discussed with one of her press guys and none of these people who accessed this were cleared for TS information other than Hillary herself.

What North Korean photo are we talking about? This is the first time you've mentioned it. I suspect you are talking about http://www.wptv.com/news/political/clinton-email-on-north-ko..., which was neither Top Secret nor sent to a news reporter. If it wasn't sent to a news reporter, why do you think this email is anything at all like Kim's case?

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#107

Post by gspetr »

PerfectDlite wrote: post #97
ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The invasion of Crimea was a direct response to US/NATO aggression. 1) The US helped plot to overthrow the Ukranian government in 2014. 2) Russia was not keen on NATO pushing for Ukraine to become a member, which would literally put the Russians major warm naval port under NATO hands. 3) Crimea has been a part of Russia for centuries, the only reason Crimea became a part of Ukraine after the breakup of the Soviet Uni…

> The US helped plot to overthrow the Ukranian government in 2014. Which is not supported by any claims, except wild Russian propaganda. > NATO pushing for Ukraine to become a member Same. > Crimea has been a part of Russia for centuries Russia (as is) didn't exist _for centuries_. > to celebrate the 300th Anniversary of the Ukraine as part of Russia That's wrong on so many levels... > Crimea voted to rejoin Russia S…

Do you seriously doubt that If the population is hostile to the supposed aggressor there's usually guerrilla warfare that starts almost immediately after the invasion.

History has no shortage of examples of this.

Yet there's an absence of this in Crimea.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#108

Post by IvarTheHomeless »

lisivka wrote: post #91
IvarTheHomeless wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a time traveler or the poster you are asking but I suggest you watch this, history of the evolvement of Russian https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4cXIyyc-L0

Video is incorrect. Russian is South Slavic language. It's much closer to language used in Montenegro (which is South Slavic) than to Ukrainian or Belorusian languages. Russians have troubles with understanding of something written or spoken in East or West Slavic languages, while they have much less trouble with South Slavic languages. It's because Russian language is based on Church Slavonic language[1][2], which w…

You obviously know a lot more about this than I do. I don't think we are arguing about anything. The Langfocus video mentions the 2 saints and Church Slavonic.

There are many debates on youtube about how much of 1 slavic language a speaker of a different slavic language can understand.

I was recently listening to an episode of Sean's Russia blog that briefly discussed how much Russian is spoken in Ukraine. http://seansrussiablog.org/2015/04/09/post-maidan-ukraine-an...

I was listening to an episode of This American Life recently, the interview subject, who sounded Greek to me, was repeating the Old Slavonic liturgies he sang in his youth during Byzantine Orthodox services.

I'll have to read and find out if Old Slavonic and Church Slavonic are different or the same thing.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#109

Post by gspetr »

ptaipale wrote: post #33
shard972 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to see what happens when a person like Putin starts to say that the last peace agreements are bad and borders need to be changed then look at the second world war and the Polish history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement So is that a fear in Poland? That peace with russia would involve handing over parts of your country to Russia?

More likely that a war with or annexation by Russia would begin by handing over parts of your country to Russia. Which is largely how World War II started in Europe: Stalin and Hitler agreed on a partition of the lands in between, and together started a war to implement that agreement, so that their armies could shake hands in the middle of Poland.

Your understanding of WW2 is lacking. It wasn't 2 bad guys who wanted to split Europe. Britain and France were totally on board with Hitler at first:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement

"The agreement was signed in the early hours of 30 September 1938 (but dated 29 September) after being negotiated at a conference held in Munich, Germany, among the major powers of Europe, excluding the Soviet Union."

The German-Soviet Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was signed in August 1939, almost a year later.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#110

Post by PerfectDlite »

gspetr wrote: post #107
PerfectDlite wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US helped plot to overthrow the Ukranian government in 2014. Which is not supported by any claims, except wild Russian propaganda. > NATO pushing for Ukraine to become a member Same. > Crimea has been a part of Russia for centuries Russia (as is) didn't exist _for centuries_. > to celebrate the 300th Anniversary of the Ukraine as part of Russia That's wrong on so many levels... > Crimea voted to rejoin Russia S…

Do you seriously doubt that If the population is hostile to the supposed aggressor there's usually guerrilla warfare that starts almost immediately after the invasion. History has no shortage of examples of this. Yet there's an absence of this in Crimea.

Absence? So why Russia started to exile, suppress and kill Crimean Tatars then?
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