Is an MBA a Plus or a Minus in the Startup World? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is an MBA a Plus or a Minus in the Startup World?

#21

Post by nileshtrivedi » Sat, May 08, 2010, 10:20 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #12

profgubler wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think very few go from undergrad to their mba without work experience. Look at the average years experience for top grad schools. It is normally 3+ years on average. I am about to go to Notre Dame for an MBA and I have just under 3. It is all great to pick on people who have a business undergrad and mba, but sometimes in life people don't know what they want to do at the undergrad level. I did not start my…

It's often business degree -> analyst at a bank or consultancy -> MBA -> associate at bank or consultancy -> industry job when it becomes apparent that partnership isn't on the horizon. The problem with MBAs of this type is that they believe management is a universal function that can be applied directly to any industry. The real world is more subtle than that.

As long as the recruiters keep believing that "management is a universal function that can be applied directly to any industry", students can hardly be blamed for it.

Re: Is an MBA a Plus or a Minus in the Startup World?

#22

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 08, 2010, 10:30 PM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #15

rick_2047 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live (India) most of the MBAs are Engineering or Science Graduates. This year only 9 people from business and 1 from arts got into IIM-A. Its a common choice among Engineers to take up MBA after there Graduation (BE/BS/B Tech). It kind of annoys me though. Its fine if you are doing an specialization in something like Project Management, Computer Management, E-Commerce or something like that. But it just bugs…

What's an IIM and IIT? How much is 900k Rs?

[deleted]

Re: Is an MBA a Plus or a Minus in the Startup World?

#23

Post by pg » Sat, May 08, 2010, 10:34 PM UTC

rick_2047 wrote: post #18

Maro wrote: post #8

In the Startup World, it's not the MBA that matters, it's you!

I don't know much but I have a slight doubt whenever I read something like this. I presume you get an MBA to give you a better understanding about business. And startups are in essence businesses. Then how come having a better understanding not impact your startup?

The cause of the apparent paradox is that "business" spans a huge range. MBAs train you to be junior officers in the armies of managerial capitalism. But there is almost zero overlap between that sort of work and what startups do.

Re: Is an MBA a Plus or a Minus in the Startup World?

#24

Post by glen » Sat, May 08, 2010, 10:41 PM UTC

rick_2047 wrote: post #16

roel_v wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's an IIM and IIT? How much is 900k Rs?

IIM : Indian Institute of Management. These are the most premium B-schools of India supported by Indian government. IIT : Indian Institute of Technology. These These are the most premium tech schools of India supported by Indian government. 900 000 Indian rupees = 19 758.6 U.S. dollars

IIT - most selective school on the planet. Much more competitive than Harvard.

Re: Is an MBA a Plus or a Minus in the Startup World?

#25

Post by neilc » Sat, May 08, 2010, 10:51 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #23

rick_2047 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know much but I have a slight doubt whenever I read something like this. I presume you get an MBA to give you a better understanding about business. And startups are in essence businesses. Then how come having a better understanding not impact your startup?

The cause of the apparent paradox is that "business" spans a huge range. MBAs train you to be junior officers in the armies of managerial capitalism. But there is almost zero overlap between that sort of work and what startups do.

MBAs train you to be junior officers in the armies of managerial capitalism.

Some MBA programs do -- most, even. But more and more programs are focusing on entrepreneurship.

I think it is pretty obvious that having an MBA is useful if you're going to do a startup. Is getting an MBA more useful than spending the time/money on something else? Perhaps, perhaps not -- depending on the person involved, the skills of their cofounders, the type of the business, and so on.

Re: Is an MBA a Plus or a Minus in the Startup World?

#26

Post by Major_Grooves » Sat, May 08, 2010, 10:52 PM UTC

I think the actual education would be very beneficial. Most MBA schools now position themselves as very entrepreneurial. Oxford, for example, has a seed fund for startup ideas from MBA students.

The thing that puts me off doing an MBA is the time and the cost. One or two years is a long time to not act on an idea if you've already got some in your head. If you don't already have some startup ideas in your head and you're thinking of doing a MBA I would argue that you're not really a startup person. There are lots of people that want to be an "entrepreneur" but don't have any actual startup ideas.

The cost is my biggest worry though. Having a £50,000 dept with £700/month repayments really does put a dampener on the idea of bootstrapping a startup. Hence why so many MBA graduates end up doing investment banking or consulting.

Me - non-coder, lots of startup ideas, entrepreneur wanabee, business school interview in a week!

Re: Is an MBA a Plus or a Minus in the Startup World?

#27

Post by endtime » Sat, May 08, 2010, 11:13 PM UTC

glen wrote: post #24

rick_2047 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIM : Indian Institute of Management. These are the most premium B-schools of India supported by Indian government. IIT : Indian Institute of Technology. These These are the most premium tech schools of India supported by Indian government. 900 000 Indian rupees = 19 758.6 U.S. dollars

IIT - most selective school on the planet. Much more competitive than Harvard.

Your comment inspired me to do some research, and the first page I found was this one: http://www.kamalsinha.com/iit/acceptance-rate.html

Given your comparison to Harvard, I thought you might be interested in this paragraph:

>While it seems true that admission rate at IITs is less than even the most selective US school like the CalTech, it does not mean IIT recruits students of higher caliber. In a country like the USA, educational resources were well developed and the enrollment capacity for engineering majors is kept about the same as the number of seniors intending to enter those programs, if not more. It means less desparation. Moreover, there are lot of top-notch schools schools of about equal caliber which decreases their selectivity figures. My guess is that the top 50 engineering schools in the USA exceed IITs in almost all respect and another 100 or so other schools are not far behind.

Re: Is an MBA a Plus or a Minus in the Startup World?

#28

Post by pg » Sat, May 08, 2010, 11:23 PM UTC

neilc wrote: post #25

pg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cause of the apparent paradox is that "business" spans a huge range. MBAs train you to be junior officers in the armies of managerial capitalism. But there is almost zero overlap between that sort of work and what startups do.

MBAs train you to be junior officers in the armies of managerial capitalism. Some MBA programs do -- most, even. But more and more programs are focusing on entrepreneurship. I think it is pretty obvious that having an MBA is useful if you're going to do a startup. Is getting an MBA more useful than spending the time/money on something else? Perhaps, perhaps not -- depending on the person involved, the skills of their…

Actually I would say it's a slight net minus to have an MBA when doing a startup. You learn nothing of use to you, but investors discriminate against you slightly.

Almost all investors are looking for founders who match past stars. So what they're looking for at this point is hackers.

I have to say I agree with them. I can't imagine Bill Gates or Larry & Sergey enduring B School.

Re: Is an MBA a Plus or a Minus in the Startup World?

#29

Post by deltapoint » Sat, May 08, 2010, 11:25 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #23

rick_2047 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know much but I have a slight doubt whenever I read something like this. I presume you get an MBA to give you a better understanding about business. And startups are in essence businesses. Then how come having a better understanding not impact your startup?

The cause of the apparent paradox is that "business" spans a huge range. MBAs train you to be junior officers in the armies of managerial capitalism. But there is almost zero overlap between that sort of work and what startups do.

Do you think there could be an MBA program that teaches relevant things to what start ups do? and what would it teach?

I feel in some ways part of what Y Combinator does is like an extremely condensed business school that is relevant to start ups.

YC "spend[s] much more time teaching founders how to pitch their startups, and how to close a deal once they've generated interest." YC also invites speakers to share their knowledge http://ycombinator.com/w9speakers.html

I think the ultimate educational experience for a future start up entrepreneur would combine what Ars Digita University taught (programming) http://www.aduni.org/, web design, the relevant aspects of business, a bit of elementary worldly wisdom http://ycombinator.com/munger.html, and to top it all off the school would require the students to work on a start up as a side project.

Re: Is an MBA a Plus or a Minus in the Startup World?

#30

Post by pg » Sat, May 08, 2010, 11:39 PM UTC

deltapoint wrote: post #29

pg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cause of the apparent paradox is that "business" spans a huge range. MBAs train you to be junior officers in the armies of managerial capitalism. But there is almost zero overlap between that sort of work and what startups do.

Do you think there could be an MBA program that teaches relevant things to what start ups do? and what would it teach? I feel in some ways part of what Y Combinator does is like an extremely condensed business school that is relevant to start ups. YC "spend[s] much more time teaching founders how to pitch their startups, and how to close a deal once they've generated interest." YC also invites speakers to share their…

Startups are one of those things that are best learned by doing, so YC pretty much already is what you're talking about. We've tried to make it the optimal way to learn about startups. But YC is structurally so different from a university that I don't think they'd be able to evolve very far in this direction.

There's a discontinuity between investment firms and schools. We've taken the investment firm and made it a lot like a school, in much the same way that seals became a lot like fishes. But as with seals and fishes, there is an unbridgeable gap despite the surface similarities.