Kindness? Among bacteria, fungi, cells and viruses? How does kindness fits into population genetics?
The article is about humans
they might need some cold water for that burn
Forget Survival of the Fittest: It Is Kindness That Counts (2009)
51–60 of 140 posts
Re: Forget Survival of the Fittest: It Is Kindness That Counts (2009)
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I understand the nature of the math correctly, altruism should be "beneficial" (from evolutionary perspective), if the number of people multiplied by closeness factor of their genes to yours ultimately translates to a larger portion of your genes propagating to later generations, than if you have expended those resources on yourself. E.g. suppose I have a loaf of lembas. I can eat it myself, and it increases my ch…
Evolutionary instinct is to create your own offspring, not your sister's/brother's. Why would there be an evolutionary reason to help your brother reproduce but not your friend.?
J.B.S. Haldane, when asked if he would give his life to save a drowning brother, replied
"No, but I would to save two brothers or eight cousins."
As you share on average half your alleles with a brother and one-eighth with a cousin, Haldane was giving the number of relatives one would have to save to "break even".
As quoted in Mathematical Models of Social Evolution : A Guide for the Perplexed (2007) by Richard McElreath and Robert Boyd, p. 82;
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/J._B._S._Haldane
This is in relation to the idea of kin selection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin_selection
Re: Forget Survival of the Fittest: It Is Kindness That Counts (2009)
#53One quarter of people in Asia has Chengis Khan's genes. He is probably the most genetically successfull male in the recent millenia. I am not sure he got there by altruism alone.
Re: Forget Survival of the Fittest: It Is Kindness That Counts (2009)
#54When I was working on evolutionary dynamics in the late 90s, a group of us from across the world were trying to build an evolutionary model that showed the emergence of altruistic behaviour. It was really really difficult. Even knowing exactly the kind of behaviour we wanted to show, it wasn't trivial to stack the dice enough to roll that outcome. I have since read a lot of arguments, a lot of post-hoc reasoning that…
This is a bit surprising to me. Based on my gut I assumed that if a group has a sufficient probability of producing individuals with "broken selfishness" then the group has a higher fitness to survive, especially if some evolutionary pressure requires these "different" individuals. But this is probably not this simple.
Re: Forget Survival of the Fittest: It Is Kindness That Counts (2009)
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
> When I was working on evolutionary dynamics in the late 90s, a group of us from across the world were trying to build an evolutionary model that showed the emergence of altruistic behaviour. OK, math. There are 200 people in Group A. Each has the choice of taking 1 point for themselves or giving 2 points to the group. If everyone gives 2 points then everyone gets 2 points. If everyone keeps the 1 point then no one…
Good example but in most real world cases choice will be to keep one point to themselves and give away between zero to one point to the group out of that one point. Now selfish behaviour kicks in as every individual wants to give as little as possible. But survivial of the group becomes crucial in face of an adversory. In that case everyone will contribute towards maximising group's strength. So in my understanding n…
But can it still be called altruism? Imho, helping out the group to preserve yourself disqualifies it as such; the selfish aspect is clearly there.
Re: Forget Survival of the Fittest: It Is Kindness That Counts (2009)
#56Title should indicate this is from 2009.
Yes, from the first question "a book that was just released called Born to Be Good: The Science of a Meaningful Life" is from 2009:
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/review/born-to-be-good-the-sci...
Re: Forget Survival of the Fittest: It Is Kindness That Counts (2009)
#57When I was working on evolutionary dynamics in the late 90s, a group of us from across the world were trying to build an evolutionary model that showed the emergence of altruistic behaviour. It was really really difficult. Even knowing exactly the kind of behaviour we wanted to show, it wasn't trivial to stack the dice enough to roll that outcome. I have since read a lot of arguments, a lot of post-hoc reasoning that…
> When I was working on evolutionary dynamics in the late 90s, a group of us from across the world were trying to build an evolutionary model that showed the emergence of altruistic behaviour. OK, math. There are 200 people in Group A. Each has the choice of taking 1 point for themselves or giving 2 points to the group. If everyone gives 2 points then everyone gets 2 points. If everyone keeps the 1 point then no one…
I have a little modification of your experiment.
* Divide the big group into smaller groups (where they are giving each other inside the group only).
Now individuals in the group where many give to each other get an advantage over individuals in other groups.
Individuals that keep for themselves while staying in a group that gives also keep the better advantage on cost of their group.
Re: Forget Survival of the Fittest: It Is Kindness That Counts (2009)
#58When I was working on evolutionary dynamics in the late 90s, a group of us from across the world were trying to build an evolutionary model that showed the emergence of altruistic behaviour. It was really really difficult. Even knowing exactly the kind of behaviour we wanted to show, it wasn't trivial to stack the dice enough to roll that outcome. I have since read a lot of arguments, a lot of post-hoc reasoning that…
I don't know if it counts for alturism, but wasn't cooperation-by-default famously shown the best strategy by the tit-for-tat program in the early 80'ies? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_tat
Robert Sapolsky covers this in one of his courses on evolutionary biology. I found the content to be approachable and the man charming, I highly recommend the course. (I am not a biologist!)
http://www.robertsapolskyrocks.com/behavioral-evolution.html
Re: Forget Survival of the Fittest: It Is Kindness That Counts (2009)
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
> When I was working on evolutionary dynamics in the late 90s, a group of us from across the world were trying to build an evolutionary model that showed the emergence of altruistic behaviour. OK, math. There are 200 people in Group A. Each has the choice of taking 1 point for themselves or giving 2 points to the group. If everyone gives 2 points then everyone gets 2 points. If everyone keeps the 1 point then no one…
I have a little modification of your experiment. * Divide the big group into smaller groups (where they are giving each other inside the group only). Now individuals in the group where many give to each other get an advantage over individuals in other groups. Individuals that keep for themselves while staying in a group that gives also keep the better advantage on cost of their group.
Another modification would be:
* Allow the group to punish those who keep for themselves.
Re: Forget Survival of the Fittest: It Is Kindness That Counts (2009)
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good example but in most real world cases choice will be to keep one point to themselves and give away between zero to one point to the group out of that one point. Now selfish behaviour kicks in as every individual wants to give as little as possible. But survivial of the group becomes crucial in face of an adversory. In that case everyone will contribute towards maximising group's strength. So in my understanding n…
But can it still be called altruism? Imho, helping out the group to preserve yourself disqualifies it as such; the selfish aspect is clearly there.
That's why I called it practical. It's more like a long term investment where everyone wins (not only you). That's why it can be considered selfless.